bohm - imo the best arguments for God are the ones provided by Darwin himself as in his own words he was a staunch believer when he wrote On the Origin of Species.
Atheists, what is the best argument FOR God?
by bohm 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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prologos
if humans made god, it still leaves the question,
who created the universe, or its prior conditions.
and the universe is a thing, bound by the dimensions,
the creator can be thought to transcend that limitation. if possible.
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Ruby456
thats a good argument prolgos
here is another based on the idea of things
If the universe is a thing, bounded by the dimensions, the creator can be argued to be someone who tells from things or entities rather than about things. Telling from entites would include gospels and evangelicalisms.
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yadda yadda 2
Hmmm....to play the devil's advocate, I think the supernatural is the best evidence. Despite the scepticism and paucity (nay, absence) of laboratory confirmation, the millions of anecdotal accounts of ghosts and other inexplicable paranormal phenomenon does give one pause to wonder if there might be other intelligent entities out there in some other dimension who are messing around with us.
Whether we ultimately defer to a materialist or metaphysical explanation, we should all be humble enough to accept that the universe and life contains amazing mysteries and weirdness that we are hopelessly ignorant about.
Logic would suggest that if we evolved, then there should be more evolved entities than us. Perhaps 'angels' or 'God' (as some sort of progeninator or first cause of our DNA) just evolved millions of years before us?
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dogon
Argument by design is the best argument. All others fail miserably. I am an atheist but the argument by design has some legs that can be argued. Not saying it has solid legs but legs. You can refute the argument of the eye by showing that its not all that great of a design, and has many flaws but you can still argue it shows design. But even so, even if you believe in the ABD you have no proof that its the god of the bible that is responsible. It could be littel green men from Altires that put us here. If god exists and I doubt he does he is a dead beat dad.
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bohm
Thanks for the contributions people!
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Etude
I think there is a fundamental problem with beginnings and causation. Maybe it has to do with our limitations of time and maybe even the idea of time (some physicists say it really doesn’t exist). It works the same for God and Science. When arguing about who made he who made God (ad nauseam), I think of a period when Science assumed that the Universe always existed (in Newton’s day) and then when it was changed to an eternal alternation of contraction and explosion (the Oscillating theory of the Universe). But now, based on expansion rates, we don’t expect it to contract and can calculate that it is approximately 13.8 billion years old since its beginning.
The difficulty stems from asking what was before the universe became or how the matter for the singularity of the Big Bang came to be. Science’s Holy Grail is to find an ultimate answer that not only explains how it all came to be but also why it came to be the way it ended up being. So, for Science, the question of beginnings remains a philosophical one and almost as fleeting as it is for a theist. The difference is that Science can afford to speculate (guess) with much greater confidence.
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Knowsnothing
As Twitch asked, what exactly is god? A definition might be useful, but when one acknowledges that they are ultimately producing their own definition, doesn't that kind of defeat the point? Lol.
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Phizzy
It always amuses me that when we get a discussion like this, the believers have to leap to "But where did the Universe come from then?" as soon as they realise that there is no proof of god in the present.
Well guess what believers, I don't know the origin of the universe, and it doesn't in fact matter as far as day to day life is concerned.
The point is, even if your god, or another believers god, did create the Universe, where has he been for the last 13.8 billion years ? Not a word, not a letter,
he is no friend of humans is he ?