The life differences between a good christian and good athiest

by EndofMysteries 79 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    Your approach seems sensible to me DS211.

    Speaking for myself I don’t see a conflict with science and theism. When I accepted evolution as true, I thought that this is how God must have done it then. So I ended up with a view on how it worked from the visible side and why it was there in the first place from the invisible side.

    I guess that I believe in the concept of truth as being a single all-encompassing concept, which is why science works I suppose and also the concept of all-encompassing purpose, as opposed to small examples of relative purpose that only relate to descriptions.

    So the snail evolves a shell which is why it has one, for protection. This is a relative purpose because the reason relates to the processes that led to it. It’s not ultimate purpose though because the processes of evolution don’t explain the process of evolution as a whole. For that one needs to go beyond just it. So just as all things that science measures are seen as fundamentally one single thing, energy, which is why all things seem to relate to each other in different ways, I think this is also the case with purpose. One truth and one purpose but these two are not the same thing on a fundamental level.

    I’m not sure I explained this well but it was worth a try.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    jwfacts: In my opinion, that is the only reason people worship God. If there was no promise of an afterlife, there would be no religious people.

    Not so. The first of my cherished beliefs to die was the assurance of a life to come. I remain a Christian albeit a reformed one. If there are people like me then religion offers more than the carrot of eternal life. There are other motivators.

  • rawe
    rawe

    Hi Jwfacts,

    "In my opinion, that is the only reason people worship God. If there was no promise of an afterlife, there would be no religious people. No one loves God, they love the promise of something else after death."

    I think that is too narrow. Many (most?) religious people feel God is helping them right now, answering their prayers, giving them an absolute moral code that improves their lives, or the opposite -- evil spirit forces are against them, etc. I would say, selective pressure has produced a brain that is good at imaging a reward or danger, etc, and this has been beneficial to our survival, despite some occasional downsides.

    Cheers,

    -Randy

  • UBM101
    UBM101

    "In my opinion, that is the only reason people worship God. If there was no promise of an afterlife, there would be no religious people. No one loves God, they love the promise of something else after death."

    Not really. Afterlife is not my concern so far, yet. I decided to become a Christian because I was told Jesus is my saviour, He is my friend and He will always be with me and watch over me. I was 8 years old at the time. For 5 years after that I never went to any church, nor joined any congregation. I prayed, I read my Bible and all that I experienced convinced me that God is real. There is Holy Spirit at work. I am more concerned about the purpose of life, wisdom and there is someone to turn to when no one can help. And for me it works. Call me stupid or delusional but God is just so real and good. Disclaimer: My personal experience and belief.

  • zound
    zound

    Zound it’s the whole package of his death and life that led up to it. It’s the reasons he died and the way he responded and what he stood up for, and critically important is the resurrection after. One simply can’t reduce this down because each aspect plays a part. If someone says they love someone to someone else but never demonstrate it, one would begin to smell a rat and that person on the receiving end will feel unloved. If they feel unloved it is very much the same as feeling not good enough and not feeling good enough is the same as holding oneself as guilty on a deep inner level. In this way sins are forgiven but it’s not legalistic forgiveness. Its indirect forgiveness though love to enable direct self-forgiveness. It’s all about self-empowerment through non selfishness means. The thing with love is that it is hard to pin down. Either people get this or they don’t.

    Thanks.

    I'd still again ask the simple question. If jesus did the other things surrounding his death and resurection - but did not die and was not resurected, instead asked you to simply trust him, and assured you through the pages of the bible that he does love you, even though he did not die for you - forgiving your sins etc is still on the table. All the essential things are present but he just ascended to heaven without the torture and death and resurection...

    Would that make any difference to your faith?

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    It would lack sincerity to me and therefore credibility. It’s like asking others to sacrifice for others but not by doing it oneself.

  • zound
    zound

    Thanks for the answer.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    jwfacts: In my opinion, that is the only reason people worship God. If there was no promise of an afterlife, there would be no religious people.

    Not so. The first of my cherished beliefs to die was the assurance of a life to come. I remain a Christian albeit a reformed one. If there are people like me then religion offers more than the carrot of eternal life. There are other motivators.

    jnat - I probably didn't word it as well as I could. It was concentrating on the reason people love and worship god. People go to church for other reasons, such as social, moral code etc. But I doubt many would devote themselves pecifically to a God that offered no reward of eternal life. A god that said "I created you, so you must worship me and devote your short life to me" would not be very popular.

    rawe I think that is too narrow. Many (most?) religious people feel God is helping them right now, answering their prayers, giving them an absolute moral code that improves their lives, or the opposite -- evil spirit forces are against them, etc.

    I expected this comment. I guess I find such a belief in prayer ignorant. Does God answer prayers? Try praying for a new limb after an amputation. Why doesn't God answer the prayers of the millions of children that starve to death each year, if he is so concern with a rich Americans pray for a safe trip, or new job? Are children in Catholic schools unworthy of having their prayers answered to have a priest stop abusing them?

    Prayer is the same as the concept from The Secret, that if you want something enough you will get it. It just does not work that way. If you think day and night about getting a sports car, it does not guarantee you will get it, but by focusing on it, you are more likely to do what is required to get one. Same with prayer. If millions of people think about ending child starvation, it will not end it, just as prayer has not ended it. But focusing on it will mean those people are more likely to do something positive to help.

    Nor does God give a moral code. Different religious tenets provide different moral codes in their religious books, and then the denominations each interpret those moral codes differently, so it is hard to say it is from God. For instance, each Christian church comes up with slightly different ideas on what constitutes porneia. The moral code has changed as culture changes, regarding such things as sacrifice, womens rights and slavery. Non-religious cultures also develop similar moral codes.

    UMB101 Not really. Afterlife is not my concern so far, yet. I decided to become a Christian because I was told Jesus is my saviour , He is my friend and He will always be with me and watch over me.

    Doesn't saying that Jesus is your saviour mean that he is saving your life, offering you everlasting life? In what way does he always look after you? Do you never get sick, never stub you toe, don't have car accidents, and never have a broken heart. Will you avoid cancer, and die peacefully at an old age? From what I can tell, the good and bad aspects of life affect Christians the same way as they affect atheists.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Paradoxically, I still enjoy worship loving the Higher. It is not rational. I am hating this Samsung. Give me back my iPhone.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Jgnat - It is not rational.

    I think that is where my theory fails.

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