The Gall Of WT To Give This Advice To Pioneers:

by JW GoneBad 74 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Stand for Pure Worship
    Stand for Pure Worship

    I agree when you say that the GB don't live to the level of a pop star, with their MTV crib. But they do have a very financially comfortable life, with no concerns about money. They are provided with nice rooms, great views, servants to cook and clean, new cars, unlimited travel, and a lot of cash in hand donations. And the adulation they receive is definitely Rock star/ tele-evangalist status. Why would you take your life over theirs?

    They do have a financially comfortable life, without a doubt, but considering all of the wealth and property at the fingertips, they're not exactly taking advantage of that situation, now are they? I don't know who on this thread first used the word, luxury? KateWild maybe? At any rate, their lifestyle is FAR from luxurious. Matter fact, when I was thinking about this thread earlier, the film No Country for Old Men came to mind, specifically the gas station scene which at one point carries the following dialogue.

    Chigurh : You've lived here all your life?

    Old Man Cashier : This was my wife's father's place. Originally.

    Chigurh : (almost spits out peanut in condescendingly humorous disbelief) You married into it?

    Old Man Cashier: We lived on Temple Texas for many years. Raised a family there. In Temple. We come out here about four years ago.

    Chigurh: (with a wow you got to be kidding me confirmation) You married into it. Old Man Cashier:...If that's the way you wanna put it.

    Chigurh: I don't have some way to put it, that's the way it is.

    I feel like Chigurh standing across from the Old Man Cashier(substitute Lett, Herd, etc.) while someone is in my ear saying, "This guy has it made. Living the life of luxury." True, their creature comforts are provided for them, and they don't have to worry about finances in the same way the rest of us do, but don't say they're living a life of luxury as that's insulting to people who really are living a posh lifestyle. I actually fantasize from time to time about living a life of luxury, and Gerrit Loesch DOES NOT come to mind.

    Let's talk about the items you mentioned that the rest of us schmucks aren't privy to.

    Nice Cars: Ok, so what are they driving these days? Leased? Own? Where do they take these nice cars? Travelling to and from a local KH and then back to Bethel? They still go out in FS, right? They do RVs in a Lexus? Are they driving nicer models than the average JW in suburban congregations?

    Nice Rooms: That ain't nothing to brag about. That doesn't impress me whether you're talking about where they live or if they stay in nice hotels. That's not impressive to me. Room with a nice view? I have a nice view at work, and I spend almost as much time there as I do at home. Again, that doesn't impress me. Besides compared to the homes of plenty of JWs that I know, the GB's living arrangements ain't nothing to brag about.

    Unlimitted Travel: To go where? Fly to a branch that's about to be closed down and give a pep talk? Literally a pep talk! Fly first class to a Circuit Assembly in the butthole of America, Detroit, to give a public talk? I can picture Anton Chigurh with Stephen Lett on an airplane as Chigurh almost spits out a peanut and then says with contemptuous disbelief, "You flew first class to give a talk in Akron?" So tell me, with this unlimited travel, what are they doing with it? Where are they going? Tahiti?

    Lots of cash in hand: Again, what are they doing with it? I've got almost two months worth of vacation time, and I have not the foggiest what I'm going to do with it if anything, as I'm a workaholic. I've got coworkers telling me that I'm wasting it. That said, can any Bethelites former or present confirm that the GB go on spending sprees? Sam Herd making a killing on Black Friday? What are they doing with the cash in hand, because their lifestyle doesn't indicate they're doing anything with it at all? Can you picture Theo Jaracz with his wife discussing dinner plans?

    Theo: Remember Bro.Greenhands? He wants to take us this 5 Star restaraunt in Manhattan. Says he has a problem with the brothers in his congregation. I figured if he's willing to take us to a nice spot in Manhattan, why not?

    Melita or whatever her name is: You think they'll have grits?

    As far as the adulation they recieve, and this goes back to your question about why I wouldn't trade my life for theirs. It boils down to the old saying about one man's trash being another man's treasure. They can have all the rock star treatment in the world, that kind of lifestyle is simply not for me. When I give a talk away, I tend to leave after it's over because I absolutely hate people approaching me afterwards telling me how good it was or how good I was. It makes me nausous to hear that kind of talk. Plus, I enjoy moving within a crowd anonymously. There's nothing quite like not everybody knowing what your name is. There's nothing like just being one of the fellas. They don't have that caveat in their lives. Most COs in my experience can't simply be one of the guys. My life compared to one of theirs, the difference in value can't be estimated.

    But again, for the record, the reason I somewhat agree with Mike's post is that when you take into consideration all that the GB has at it's fingertips financially, their life is still relatively simple despite what they've accumlated. It's not entirely hypocritical for them to make the comments they make regarding a simplified life. Irresponsible in my opinion, but not necessarily hypocrtical. Out of touch to be sure, but not hypocritical.

  • Gentledawn
    Gentledawn

    There's the thing scully, it's not a lecture, it's just a friendly reminder. They didn't lecture. Besides everyone on the writing department are pioneers and so are the GB. They have to be. It's required.

    "They" don't have to lecture. Everything they (the WT leadership and publishing arm) do and say is scrutinized to the Nth degree by random elders in any given cong, and - *poof* - they have a new reason to "counsel" someone on something that isn't anything to do with anything (video games, movies, books, music... ya know, the stuff the "about us" page of JW.org said they DON'T correct the followers on).

    ---

    A little tangent, but relevent:

    From JWfacts:

    For assignments at conventions and assemblies, specific instruction is given against using brothers with beards, such as the following from a talk outline in 2009.

    "Dress and Grooming
    Those giving talks should wear suits. If your talk calls for an interview or a demonstration, please do not use any brother who wears a beard and make sure your participants are aware of the importance of good grooming and modest dress."

    ---

    Why not use a brother with a beard for demonstrations at assemblies or conventions? Because men in the congs will start growing wild hairs all over their faces.

    Rebellion!

    Lack of spirituality!

  • Gentledawn
    Gentledawn

    They do have a financially comfortable life, without a doubt, but considering all of the wealth and property at the fingertips, they're not exactly taking advantage of that situation, now are they?

    They wear what looks to be tailor made suits, with french cuffs (requiring cuff links) and french collars. Most if not all of the GB members sport rings on both hands. One hand may be wedding bands, but some of those rings look to have some sort of insignia. They wear expensive looking watches, travel the world for free, and have their faces with captioned names on JW.org website.

    Make no mistake: These are kept men. Everything they do and say is followed and emulated.

    ALL talks and study articles are designed around the "persuasive" speech model. The "yes set" (provide an example of something the audience can readily agree with), followed by "truisms" ("facts" that cannot be researched, debated or thought critically about), and rounded up with the "suggestion" (get the audience to do what the speaker wants, modify behavior, or what not).

    If you want to see "persuasive" talk (mind control) in action, search "pink shirt prank" on youtube. Two guys persuade perfect strangers (female) to kiss them using all the above sales pitches.

  • Stand for Pure Worship
    Stand for Pure Worship

    They wear what looks to be tailor made suits, with french cuffs (requiring cuff links) and french collars. Most if not all of the GB members sport rings on both hands. One hand may be wedding bands, but some of those rings look to have some sort of insignia. They wear expensive looking watches, travel the world for free, and have their faces with captioned names on JW.org website.

    Tailor made suits? Really? LOL Stop it!

    By the way someone on a less than Middle Class budget can obtain french cuffed and collared shirts nowadays from Macy's without worrying about how they're going to eat later on. My brother in law and my father both rock their wedding rings, and both occassionally wear a pinky ring on their opposite hand. Neither one of them are living a life of luxury.

    Again, so what if they travel the world for free? Why are they travelling the world? I guarantee the travelling they do wouldn't be considered pleasurable to the average joe. Giving talks? Visiting branches and printing facilities? Dealling with theocratic brown-nosers in 5 star restaraunts? If that's what you call luxury, you can have that. Oh yeah, they have their names and faces plastered on JW.Org......... partying like a rock star indeed.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    None of them have any talent, so they'll never be rock stars. But this is the closest they will ever be.

    At the end of a convention, I saw a crowd lined up to shake hands with Tony Morris like he was the pope. One day he was a janitor/pioneer with no money, who nibbled and sipped at the memorial. Fast forward a few years and he's a JW rock star, traveling the world, speaking to adoring crowds, he's a GB... like Jesus on earth. It's not necessarily an "easy" life, but... he doesn't have to worry about health insurance or if he'll be able to live on what little social security he might get. He can live off a WT fortune. That is a luxury that ordinary pioneers don't have.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    Stands for Pure Worship:

    I agree with you that they are not rock stars, and their lifestyle is certainly not desirable to me. I have no regard for them, However....what I hold against them is this:

    -they make divine-sounding claims. To me this is unforgivable no matter who (in any religion) makes such claims. As far as I am concerned, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    -they absolutely love being on a pedestal. This is a terrible weakness and so opposite of Jesus. They are just riding along and enjoying it. The whole religion is rife with creature worship and idiots in awe of stupid titles - which is so disgusting to me! Also, I was told there was "no clergy class" and I joined the religion on this assumption. I do not acknowledge anybody's exalted view of themselves.

    -they are mindless and heedless of how their teachings have damaged people (blood transfusions, speaking against education, etc.).

    -they have no knowledge of what it is like to live in the REAL world and make totally clueless, stupid, unforgivable remarks.

    -they are not exposed to the garbage people deal with in congregations and also the "marginal" individuals who have been brought into the religion recently. I'd like to see these men deal with some of them.

    -they speak against responsible people in the work-force, not even mindful of the fact that they are existing on these people's donations. Without these naive people giving money, these men would be out on the street looking for work!

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    And how someone dresses isn't a huge indicator of their wealth or status. Warren Buffett dresses very ordinary and lives in the same ordinary house in Omaha that he always has. Quite the opposite of Donald Trump who lives lavishly.

    So, how much money has the GB squirrelled away for themselves? It might not show in their clothes or bethel rooms. But who's auditing the WT accounts? WT has liquidated hundreds of millions of dollars worth of property and are raking in money and recruiting volunteers for their new headquarters. Is there a paper trail proving that nobody is personally profiting from WT headquarter finances? And even if they haven't already dipped into the cash to stuff their own pockets, they are first in line to take whatever they want with nobody else in WT to dare question the actions of the GB!

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    If you see how GB's live, their rooms, the adulation, the fact that they don't have to cook, or even clean, it just blows your mind.

    They play the game of fake humility very well.

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    I met Lösch at an international convention once. He was kind and personable, though his handlers quickly made excuses for him as they saw a queue develop. The group I was travelling with were at a restaurant later, and Lösch and friends were seated two tables away. He graciously declined our offer to have the waiter sit us at a larger table so that we all could associate. Fine, I thought. As we went over to say goodbye, he stopped us in our tracks and said that the convention program was over for the day, we should all go back to our hotels and get rested for the next day of the convention, and that he wasn't a tourist attraction. All we were doing was saying goodbye. The 'tourist attraction' was to come later as we went to go see an opera. These guys are used to thinking that they are the star of the show, and either consciously or subconsciously expect attention and/or adoration.

  • Gentledawn
    Gentledawn

    There were some videos of GB members linked on JWsurvey recently. One of the GB members was yawning on and on about how children ---children!!! -- who were old enough to read were also old enough to participate in field service. By age 10 they should be either baptized or well on their way. If they weren't baptized by age 11, 12, or 13yo, then something was seriously amiss!

    Because when Jesus went to the temple and schooled those teachers at age 12, he waltzed right out of that temple and got himself baptized afterwards.

    Oh, wait. No he didn't.

    What these men say and do has a profound effect on their followers. Anyone who has taken the time to read the 1954 court transcripts, when Franz and Covington were grilled about "false prophecy" (1874 being "erroneous" and not a false prophecy, according to Fred Franz and Hayden Covington) and how it was obligatory for ALL witnesses to believe whatever is being said by the leadership and publications will plainly see that this religion chases and follows men, not God.

    Modern men with their modern day non-biblical dates, failed prophecies, and non-spirit annointed hub-bub malarkey.

    Luke 21:8

    He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.Do not go after them.

    ---

    Deut 18:20

    20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.

    As someone on the ex-JW forum of reddit noted:

    "Prob_Bad_Association" stated:

    "They don't answer to anyone, that's the problem. They currently have everyone convinced that they get it both ways. They are gods spokesman here on earth, therefore infallible and must be obeyed without question, but they are also imperfect humans and therefore when it turns out they were wrong, it is their fault, not gods, and they can "readjust" the teaching to conform to "new light." You can't really have it both ways, you're either infallible and therefore subject to the scriptures about false prophets, or you're imperfect, and therefore can't demand unquestioning obedience. But, there's no one for them to answer to, and anyone who points this out is swiftly df'd as an apostate, so there it stands."

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