New here and having ah ha moments!

by Angus Beef 47 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  adamah

  Welcome aboard, Angus Beef.

  Angus Beef said-How do I go back this week and not let the elders figure me out! How can you fake it?

  If you had a way to read minds, I suspect you'd find there's many others in the KH in your same situation: they face being cut off from their loved ones if they leave the group and their loved ones don't. It's a very-large game of 'Mexican stand-off', except instead of handguns, everyone is equipped with their shun gun:

  

  Getting baptized is the price of admission into the game (although not required: non-baptized can be shunned), and the GB are not allowed to change the dysfunctional game, at the risk of being shunned if they tried (DFed for apostacy, as GB member Ray Franz was).

  The ROOT of the problem is the Bible, since shunning IS justified scripturally, and Jesus repeatedly said to place God above one's own family members and how his followers should hate their parents (so much for Xian "family values"). JWs are only following Jesus' orders, since they believe the Bible is the word of God.

  It's extortion, and you're held captive since you're being coerced with facing the loss of your family (alienation of affection): that's the JW game, in a nutshell. It's a perfectly-legal form of extortion, since it's considered a practice of religion.

  Angus Beef said- When I first started studing I prayed to God not to let me get involved with a false religion, I don't know what happened there! 20 something years ago!

  Well, there's part of your problem: you believe in supernatural 'things', and lots of good that prayer did, huh? The very phrase "false religion" is a misnomer that serves the purposes of ALL religions, since it implies there IS a "true religion", a classic example of creating a false dilemma.

  ANY God belief, whether Ahuru Mazda or Jehovah, is not based on rationality, but emotional needs; letting your emotions rule your life is just asking for trouble. Unfortunately there are no quick answers, but congrats on taking the first step towards awakening to TTATT, and not simply accepting someone else's views on how to live your life which is being forced down your throat.

  Adam
• 

  steve2

  Hi Angus Beef. Boy, you sound understandably stirred up - and justifiably so! One of the very, very first things that you will learn through simple observation is this: There is no urgency, no emergency. Once you absorb this life-improving, if not life-saving gem, the heat reduces, the field of vision expands and hope germinates and grows. All else is healthy detail. It is perfectly okay to have a head full of demanding queries - time is notoriously on your side. You, honey, can now afford to stop and smell the roses. The ride will get bumpier - but unlike the slaves in the hall, time is on your side.
• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Welcome!
• 

  LisaRose

  Welcome. Tough one, it's hard for everyone, and the answer for everyone is different, since everyone's personality and situation is different.

  A lot depends on your daughter and how zealous and strict she is. Most family members will not shun unless you have been disfellowshipped, but some people seem to need to make a point and make up their own rules, so only you know your daughter. Is she in your same congregation and very zealous? If so, you may have to fake it. If she is in another congregation, just show up occasionally at the hall and stop reporting time. If they bug you, say you are depressed and need time to get better. Say it with a smile and the firm conviction that they have no power over you. If pressed for details say it's too painful to discuss.

  TMS is easy, just don't show up the night of your assigned talk. If they ask you why, look puzzled and say that you quit, so how could you possibly have had a talk? I doubt they are going to grill the autistic brother that handed it yo you. They will get the message. Remember, small, sad smile, and you are depressed, it's too painful to discuss, etc. Stop feeling guilty for legitimate choices you make in your life. They are under cult mind control, you are not.

  If your daughter is in your Congo, well, that will be harder. Turn in a fake time report, and miss as many meetings as possible I guess. I have grandchildren, so I understand, but it is a hell of a sacrifice to pretend to believe in a religion you do not believe in. Work on keeping a good relationship with your daughter so she will not want to shun you and just do your best. It's going to be hard. Learn all you can about the true history so you will be prepared if an opportunity comes up to give her something to think about. You must tread very carefully here to keep her from suspecting you are not a believer. Read combating cult mind control by Steve Hassan.

  Take care, let us know how it goes.
• 

  Zoos

  When I first started studying I prayed to God not to let me get involved with a false religion, I don't know what happened there!

  I struggled with a variation of this quandary myself.

  Adamah was right when he stated: "The very phrase "false religion" is a misnomer that serves the purposes of ALL religions, since it implies there IS a "true religion", a classic example of creating a false dilemma."

  The more you research things the more you will discover that all religions have elements of truth in them, to a greater or lesser extent. The opposite also applies. The question you should be exploring is whether or not God purposely tripped you up or paved the way for you to grow spiritually and become a "true Christian", keeping in mind that the definition of a true Christian is not tied up in religious dogma, but rather in the heart of an individual.

  They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused. - Romans 2:15

  Allowing you to get involved with the Watchtower organization should not be interpreted as a prayer unanswered but as a lack of good options. I'm sure you will agree that there are many, many good, decent, sincere Christians who identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses. Christians like that come in Mormons, Catholics and Baptists too. They also come in people who no longer have any corporate religious affiliation.

  Don't view your time as a JW as a measurement of how God feels about you.

  Welcome to the forum.
• 

  flipper

  ANGUS BEEF- Welcome to the board my friend ! We are here as a support to you and offer unconditional friendship. Many of us here have walked in your steps as you know since you've read here. Chicken Little DOES have very good advice, I agree with his or her post ( sorry chicken don't know your sex ). Great advice either way.

  Here's the deal Angus. Be VERY cautious about voicing your doubts in public to other JW's - they are trained to think that in order to please Jah ( aka the WT leaders or GB ) they have to rat you out to elders if you disagree with the WT Society spoken or published information. And unless you are darn sure your husband wouldn't report you to elders I'd be careful in what I tell him as well. Unless of course you already know he has doubts like yourself and will be supportive of any fade from meetings or field service that you want to do.

  You don't have to FAKE it , just be elusive and private in handling your doubts and issues with the WT organization. The more you say to other JW's - elders WILL use that against you in a judicial meeting . You don't have to scarifice WHO you are or WHAT you believe inside in order to please people who don't give a rats a$$ anyway in any sincere way towards you.

  Be kind to yourself, give yourself a pat on the back for figuring out there is a deception going on and it comes from the upper echelons of the WT Society leaders trickling all the way down to congregation elders. If you get a chance I really recommend reading Steve Hassan's 3 books on " mind control " and how high control organizations like Scientology, Mormons, and Jehovahs Witnesses use aggressive measures and tactics through use of guilt and fear to keep people entrapped inside a high control environment. These books from Steve Hassan really helped me to understand HOW I was controlled all my life by the WT Society thought processes and the methods that were used to control me. I exited the JWs 10 years ago at age 44 and I've never been happier !

  Hassan's website is : www.freedomofmind.com. And the 3 books are titled : Combatting Cult Mind Control 2. Releasing the Bonds- Empowering People to Think for themselves and 3. Freedom of Mind - Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs . These books really assisted me in seeing the BIG picture of what's going on behind the scenes in high control organizations like the Witnesses and it's not written by any " apostate " yet shares experiences of many different organizations including Jehovah's Witnesses. I think you'll find it interesting, eye opening, and very helpful. Take care. Please know we are here for you as a support O.K. ? Hang in there, others will chime in with what's helped them as well. Nice to have you here, keep your chin up, it may get challenging, it will in fact- but you are not alone. You've got support
• 

  Bugbear

  Agree with Steve2, "the time is on your side". Whatever the WTBS is going to tell about "new light", more and more people are going to find that all of them are imposters. Imposters that only are interested in your money and your free labour. But take it slow. Dont dazzle your "new light" into your families eyes.

  Bugbear
• 

  Found Sheep

  Well learning TTATT is the first step. For me it was a series of ah ha moments. Being on the other side of lack of love. Education in the internet and books!!!

  Welcome to life

  FS
• 

  clarity

  Angus Beef ... Wow, 1st post ... how do you feel now?

  A brave powerful 1st step!

  Hang on to that new power.

  *

  Hope you can feel the freedom here, to say your truth outloud!

  Keep asking your questions ... a big welcome to you!

  >

  What made me leave ....... not one prediction ever came true,

  protection of pedophiles in congregations, shunning, gossip/cliques,

  governing body lies & cover-up, rewriting their history...changing &

  destroying the evidence ......... there is more :-)

  clarity
• 

  Angus Beef

  I talked to my husband and this would not be the first discussion within the last year. There's been times he's wanted to quit, and I'd be understanding but say things like maybe we need to find a different hall, etc. He feels the same as I, we'd lose the grandkids. His daughter left the truth and his son not long after we'd been married. If we left it would be a smack in their faces. My daughters are from my first marriage, that ended because he couldn't take the pressure from his non-Jw family. I came in the truth after we'd married and he never took but never opposed. My current husband I've known from the Khall...for years. We thought we could strenghten each other but we couldn't find the love of the truth that we once had. We've struggled. He wants to keep going, I think because he's already been ignored by elders etc because of the shaving issue, and I don't think he could handle total disassociation. He has no real friends in the khall, just ones who like to use him. His work allows him big discounts on auto parts and they all come running when they need something. He has now stopped giving discounts. And the treatment has become worse. Ppl notice but they don't get it, you only want to be our friends when you want something. UGh!

  My oldest daughter is married to a MS and his father was the PO at one time... so we feel like they watch us like a hawk. I can't say anything negative in front of her... my SIL has said he felt we'd be gone in 10 yrs which hurt our feelings.. narcissistic find it hard to be tackful!

  My youngest I talked to today and asked her not to be mad at me but I was done. She said she wasn't mad but confused. I told her it wasn't fair that I raised her this way and then stop. I just can't do it anymore. You could cut the tension in the Khall with a knife. There's so many clicks and mooches I just can't find a positive to hold on to...

  thanks for the advice. I will hang in for the kids and tread lightly.

  My oldest sees what goes on, but she keeps her mouth shut. She don't want to start problems and avoids conflict. I guess she'll have to find out for herself. She too believes we are so near to the end, she scofted when I told her we'd be starting our 401K next year. I'm not turning 70 and have nothing to retire on and hope that SS is there. Take a lesson from the ant!