oh dear I think I messed up and pushed too hard (page 3)

Londo111

You must understand from the JW perspective, she views this as persecution that is ultimately instigated by Satan and his demons in an effort to break her integrity to God. She thinks the world hates her and her religion and is out to get them. She has been primed for opposition, especially by unbelieving family. The more you understand her mindset, the better capable you will be in reasoning with her and adapting your approach.

She is a victim of a mind control cult, indoctrinated with guilts and fears of all sorts, lost in a mental maze. It is sort of like defusing a bomb: if you pull the wrong wire, the situation will explode in a way that will harm her and you. It takes patience, great care and delicate skill.

Remember: honey, not vinegar.

freeflyingfaerie

What Londo said.

What do you mean by "let her have it with both barrels"?

You have a valid point with the backwards and opportunistic ways of the religion, but going off on your wife isn't going to get you any closer to her letting her guard down.

And you may hate me for this, but ...maybe she also didn't appreciate you going through her things and then using what you found to then explode.

The fact that you are the bread-winner (or main bread-winner) does not give you all the power and say so. Her threat about your child (which would not be ok) may have been what she felt was her only power in the argument, and may have not meant it. Give her the dignity you would want.

Old Goat

If you're so inclined you may call me Dr. Old Goat. The "education" the WatchTower provides does not meet an academic standard.

The choice they present is between being a "servant" or pioneer and a good, solid education. If being an elder and living in poverty is more important to you than supporting your family, then by all means stay an elder. Do a thankless job for which you have been inadequately trained and for which you will not be thanked. Instead you'll be counseled in a steady stream of meaningless ways.

The WatchTower thinks education drives people from "the truth." I suppose it does. For the first time students must think at least marginally. The WatchTower is opposed to thinking of any sort.

Go get yourself educated.

TTATTelder

I just did the same thing. I went off on the org to my born-in wife last night after a few margaritas.

This stuff is going to spew out sometimes. I have just reframed it today as concerns over things I see and needing to vent and gave reassurances of my love for her.

I don't know how much damage I did. She cried herself to sleep, but I plan on love-bombing her for a few days to win points.

Use the organization's tactics against them. (I do actually love my wife, so it is much more sincere then the org stuff)

You can pretty easily reframe the blow-up also as you found it personally insulting and could throw in a "sorry IF I overreacted" sort of thing.

Better to have peace and control emotion in this stuff. Hard to do sometimes as I learned last night.

flipper

FRAZZLED- Man, I feel for you buddy. You've definitely got a tough road to hoe there with having a born in JW wife. I was married 19 years to a JW wife who also came unglued emotionally crying uncontrollably if I did or said the slightest thing disrespectful towards the WT Society. WT Society produces unstable people mentally and emotionally due to the mind control as some have mentioned here. So in order to stay with this woman you'll need to reassure her of your authentic love as a husband from a human viewpoint. I agree with posters who say shower her with unconditional love and just don't discuss the pink, white, or freaky WT Society elephant sitting in the living room .

My thoughts are to offer her a night out on the town, nice dinner, nice movie, if you like live music go take her listening to it and go out dancing with her. Then it may bring back those authentic man & woman feelings you guys have for each other without that goddammned imaginary 3rd chord Yahweh interferring in your marriage. It will get her mind thinking in non-JW activities and help her re-focus into the really important thing- your marriage and relationship. Just don't bring up JW talk. Leave it alone for quite awhile unless SHE brings it up.

And I agree with A Bible Students advice read Steve Hassan's books in detail because they give really great advice on HOW to talk to our cult mind controlled relatives. Lots of good tips on what to say and how to say it to avoid confrontations. Seriously, read Hassan's books , it will help a lot. It has helped me to deal with my still in JW family also. I wish you the best my friend and please know we are here for you. Dude- I'll PM you my phone number and ANYTIME you feel you need a friend to chat with or talk to- call me, I mean it. Check your PM's in a little bit and you'll see my phone number. Hang in there guy, hope things chill out with your wife some and you and her can get some quality time together away from this destructive cult. I know it's so fuc&ing crazy- but YOU are the one who has to fight for your marriage- WT Society doesn't give a damn about you and your wife's relationship- teach your wife to care by your example. Take care, Peace out sending PM now.

flipper

BTTT, Peace out, mr. Flipper

nonjwspouse

geeze, frazzled UBM, Ttattelder and I ALL have exploded on our JW spouses within this last day or so? Is it in the air or something?

I don't feel alone about it that's for sure. I feel a little relieved that I am not the only one. I feel less inclined to explode at him again and more inclined to go back to trying to planting subconsious seeds with no mention of the JW , so no bringing up his mental defenses and shutting down his mind.

This site helps me so much, but also sometimes gets me so uspet when reading of the current teachings, etc.

balance... we all need it huh?

< insert needed group hug icon here>

freeflyingfaerie

Frazzled~ For what it's worth, I feel that it would have been better if I had not posted here. I don't know you and know virtually nothing about you and what happened. So it feels odd now having given 'advice' on your marriage. For some reason your post struck a chord with me. I'll just leave it with sincerely hoping the best for you and your family.

never a jw

Leave your wife alone. Save the children. Even in an equal arrangement (not the mysoginist arrangement of the Bible and the WT) you have equal access to your children. Negotiate and get your equal access / control of their education.

Frazzled UBM

Thanks for all your advice. Just for clarification I have read one of Steve Hassan's books. I understand the theory and I ahve used some oththe techniques he suggest - it is just difficult to put into practice all the time. Remaining silent about the idiocy of what the WBTS propagates is incredibly difficult - so occasionally it bubbles out as TTATT elder and nonjwspouse corroborate. The fact that she won't talk to me about it of her own volition means that I tend to get quite animated when I do unload. Also the fact that she is so secretive about it is why I went and found the study article because I suspected she wouldn't readily talk to me about what the study had been about but fff I do take your point about her privacy and your suggestion that that might be one reason she was upset.

I feel personal disappointment that she won't trust my judgement on this stuff and instead mistakenly puts her trust in 8 crusty old egomaniacs in Bethel. So I have a deep sense of personal grievance. And I found the stuff on higher education insulting and I have sent my wife a follow-up email quoting the paragraphs in the WT Study adn from the March 2012 letter to elders to show her why I was upset.

I am not inclined to seek help from Steve Hassan because I am not entirely convinced of his methods (I find his books to be almost a form of personal marketing) and I suspect he will be very expensive with no guarantee of success.

I have sent flowers and am demonstrating contrition. I have to try harder to resist the urge to unload and perhaps need to spend less time reading about the latest WBTS outrage on JWN. I iwll go back to doing those things that you all recommend to spend time with her and lure her away from spending time with the congregation. The point about it being a social thing for her is a good one as she has ex-neighbours and ex-school mates from back in the Philippines in the congregation which gives her a readymade community here in London and these are the people who pull her back in if she misses too many meetings.

I think the thing about taking my son back to the Philipines was an empty threat and I quickly put the passports in safe keeping (but did not move the money out of the joint account she has acces to - even though I was tempted to do so). I hope she realizes this would be a tremendously negative thing for her and my son but I can see how when the cult personality takes over and worries that our son will not be baptized that she has these crazy thoughts.

oh dear I think I messed up and pushed too hard

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