oh dear I think I messed up and pushed too hard

by Frazzled UBM 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    I remain concerned that in a moment of cult-inspired madness she may try and take my son with her to the Philippines to remove my Satanic influence and get him to agree to indoctrination (against my bette judgement I have taken the passports out of hiding).-FUBM

    I am sorry you still feel concerend today. Good job telling your wife of your concerns. JWs do break up families, I do hope they don't break up yours, your son needs a mum and a dad. I hope she stays, I hope you can reason with her to do so.

    Take care Kate xx

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    jwfacts - 'Why are you so worried about what she believes?...that she had before she met you' Fair point though she has changed and reneged on things she agreed to before we got married such as not trying to bring our son up as a Witness and not creating problems with celebrating Xmas and birthdays. Also since she was d'fd and reinstated she has become more zealous and spends all day every Sunday away from us. So I do think there is a lot of collateral damage to me from her involvement including: not being able to socialise as a normal couple would, not being able to celebrate birthdays and Xmas without a drama, her having this whole secret life that I am excluded from but knowing that it portrays me in a very negative light and now having to reamin silent about the irrationality fo it all. So while I clearly know tha twhat you say is correct - it rankles. Hence why I am Frazzled.

  • carla
    carla

    As a fellow ubm I sympathize with the following:

    " not being able to socialise as a normal couple would, not being able to celebrate birthdays and Xmas without a drama, her having this whole secret life that I am excluded from but knowing that it portrays me in a very negative light and now having to reamin silent about the irrationality fo it all. So while I clearly know tha twhat you say is correct - it rankles. Hence why I am Frazzled."

    It is hurtful to say the least and I have said nearly those exact words many times and live it as well.

    She is currently in over-zealous mode? it will fade a bit in a while, hang in there if you can if only for the sake of your child. You can't have control or protect your child if you are not there on a constant basis. Protect him at all costs from the hell of the cult. Do birthday's, holidays and carry on as if it is all normal (because it is) she can choose to go sit in another room and be pious by herself if need be. Your child will one day thank you for all you do to protect him from the cult and give him as normal as upbringing as possible, mine did. (my jw joined the cult later in our married life but the kids were still young)

    How to keep the wt out of your face 24/7? do not allow ANY wt litter-ature in the common areas of the home, home should be a neutral area. If she leaves out wt crap then you will leave out the most horrendous stories of jw crimes, pedophile stories, C of C, etc... you can find and so forth. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. It is hell to be sure to get this through their head but in the end you will have a wt free home and somewhere you 2 can be normal again without the wt staring you in the face and without apostate stuff staring her in the face.

    Know right now that she is a jw and she WILL lie to you, she will attempt to indoctrinate your child and you must find a way to protect him. She WILL be secretive, they justify it to her. Teach your child to think.

    Is your child in danger should he have an accident while you are not around and needs blood? I took some measures to make sure my kids were protected and enlisted family & friends about the matter. YOU may need to be secretive in this matter.

    Also know this, it can get better, never the same as pre jw days but better than the hell you are going through right now and even downright great at times. Treasure the authentic self moments and try to get them out as often as possible. Wishing you peace, carla

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Great thoughts, carla.

    I recall that hubby does not see me as a threat, so he doesn't sneak around on the Witness stuff. This helps, as I'm not in the dark on what's really going on. Not being a threat means (mostly) not criticizing his Witness involvement, and attending a meeting on occassion. If you were wondering, I haven't attended anything in six months. There are individual Witnesses I am fond of, and I return their love-bombing with genuine notes of concern when I meet them out and about town. I stay real and talk about ordinary stuff to let their natural selves burn bright for a while.

    At the moment, hubby's attending one meeting a week and is mostly himself.

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    I think I will need to take a break from reading the posts here because when I read the idiotic stuff the organisation does it makes me so frustrated that I can't get through to her. I am bereft.

    I can totally relate as the same thing use to happen to me. I would read crazy things here and get all frustrated knowing that my wife is in the middle of it.

    You are pushing too hard but it is easy to see how it can happen as it has happened to me several times in the past four years. As others have said, unless you know why she is a witness it will be hard to get her to choose to leave the religion. I can relate myself as I have found it difficult to reconcile my emotional reasons for wanting to remain a Christian and my logical reasoning that ultimately tells me that there are a lot flaws in the belief system (some of them potentially damaging). You may not have the benefit of this kind of empathy for your wife but even if she sees the flaws in her religion, she may still have a hard time leaving it.

    My wife, for example, does see certain flaws but remains steadfast because she does not see any other religion or group offering her what the witnesses offer. She also has strong family ties to the religion, most noteably, her religious and devout mom who she does not want to dissappoint. I think she has lost herself in the demands of others and says that she is now "doing new things" by trying to assert herself. Sadly, however, she still does not want to offend the witnesses too much.

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    carla, jgnat and garyneal - thanks for your comments. One thing that concerns me is that if she stays in over time we will have very little in common as the cult consumes so much of her time outside of work and it is her only social network and we have no social network in common and it is difficult for me to get her to agree to ahve people around who are not my family or it we do she doesn't engage with them. Doing stuff as a family only takes you so far. There is a lot of slience between us as I search for an acceptable topic of conversation within her limited range of non-cult interests. She loves a good natural disaster though but that only takes me so far because I know why she is so interested. So my long term prognosis for the marriage is not optimistic if she stays in the cult. How did you guys deal with this? I know jgnat has good strategies in this regard but how about you other guys - did this become an issue for you?

  • carla
    carla

    Oh yeah, that very LOUD silence! I hated that! what to talk about? Yes, it is difficult with the stage I believe you are in. I'm sorry, I do know how it is and it is awful. You may never be able to have some of the conversations you used to without the wt leaking in.

    How did I handle that? probably not well and I'm not suggesting it but if he EVER tried to bring wt anything into any conversation I would call him on it. I would know full well it came right of a certain wt/awake and I would do it in public. I would not outright say it came from such and such an issue but rather in a round about way and he & I knew full well what I was saying and others would watch this strange conversation and not know what the hell just happened. I did not get excited or yell but was able to give facts, stats, you name it I was up on current wt's at the time, or the gist of them anyway.I do not necessarily suggest this route as it is not comfortable in the least but I was fighting for my family and extended family as well. I didn't want any of them to get sucked in. You know how jw's can sound like they make some sense for a few minutes? until you actually look at what they just said?

    How are things now in my house? we more often than not have a great time , we have a lot of activities we like together and even some new ones we never used to do, we do not however socialize much due to my unwillingness to socialize with jw's. He doesn't go out with them in a social manner and I do not actively go out with so called apostates, at the moment. (not for lack of wanting to!)

    That was a huge loss to me, the secret language of lovers. I don't know why but when he joined up that was lost and not only that but he claimed he had no knowledge of such a thing. You know that 'look' or 'time to go look' or maybe 'hey, aren't they nuts?' whatever...... a bond, a language that can be unspoken between lovers or even very good friends. Over time it has come back but it was a real heartbreak for me when it was lost.

    Ah, she is in the love of disaster mode? yeah, been there too. I swear my jw would be nearly giddy with every new disaster for awhile. How to counter these things? Learn a bit of history and other natural disasters (example- for some time the wt had a thing with earthquakes and my jw loved nothing more than good earhtquake somewhere! well, I got a book debunking jw view on the whole matter. Sorry I forget the name of it ) If there is some natural disaster focus on what OTHERS are doing to HELP, real help, feeding, clothing, medical, etc.... stories of random acts of kindness, etc.. Show her how people in the world really show love of their brother (complete strangers with different world views,race, creed, colors, ), how people are willing to lay down their life for the sake of someone else and so on.

    Back to the issue of conversation, I'm sitting here thinking back to when even the topic of the weather was nearly taboo! How could weather be a hot topic? well, things are getting worse! more storms, etc... good grief. How about 'hey, it's a beautiful day let's be grateful this day and do something together as a family?' Try not to allow news on all the time and certainly not in front of your child if they are young. No reason a little kid needs to watch the news. Let em' be a kid.

    Sorry for the length. It really can get better, truly it can. I would say in my case it was a full 2 years of hell though. My kids came out of it and have become Christians and pray for their dad stuck in the cult. I think we sometimes have to look at his jwism as a sort of mental problem, sorry if it is offensive but it is how we cope. ( I should clarify, I never, ever let my kids step foot in a kh and for some time did all I could to never leave them alone with jw dad because he would try to indoctrinate them even though he promised he wouldn't. The kids lost their dad for awhile because al he cared about was jwism)

    I know I harp on having the house neutral but really it helps enormously. He keeps his wt crap hidden and I keep my considerable apostate library out of his site. I know he probably reads stuff on his electronic devices but I don't have to see it lying around. I will pop off of this site (or any ex jw site) as soon as I hear him up and about. We very rarely discuss anything jw and it keeps the peace. Should we be able to discuss everything under the sun like we used to? yes, but that is not the reality I am dealing with today so I choose to make the best of it.

    In the past I have delivered anti jw literature to paperboxes, I did this when I felt helpless and like I should be doing 'something' to keep others out. Or I would deliver when I read some heartwrenching shunning story here or something that really bothered me. Find a way to deal with the frustration, work out, find a fun hobby for you & child to do together, confide in a good friend that is willing to listen to all the crazyiness that is all things jw.

    It can get better. Plan some weekend getaways, dinner out on meeting nights (or not), bring her flowers, help around the house, let her know you are not the spawn of satan as they say (actually they say things like this about ubm's-sleeping with a corpse, walking dead, birdseed, etc..) It is all hurtful but understand she is really not herself right now. In time she may come back, can you wait for her?

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    Thanks Carla - very helpful. She is a born-in but was df'd 8 years ago and then reinstated 2 years ago and it is only in that time I got to understand the full horror. She fluctuates in her zealotry. Xmas is a bad time - lots of conflict as she drags her heals on whatever I try to organise with family and friends which makes me resentful and causes me to hit back by attacking ridiculous doctrine and then the downward spiral starts. I certainly see it as a mental problem - she is emotionally retarded by it. Hopefully things will get better in the new year. My son is safe as long as I am in the picture which is why I have toi tread carefully as he is only 7.

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