A Clean Slate When You Die ??

by Perry 57 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Perry
    Perry

    Right, but you still will be judged for some sin someone committed at some point in history, somewhere, some time ago.

    I've read the bible a few times, been to several churches , all attended regularly, read thousands of pages written on the fundamental doctrines of Christianity, & created a website explaining the historic doctrines guided by none other than common sense and the Holy Spirit. I can honestly say I've never heard of a Chrristian doctrine whereby a person gets judged for someone elses sins. What New Testament scripture teaches this?

  • alecholmesthedetective
    alecholmesthedetective

    All I know is that the bible doesn't teach that I'll be judged for something they did.

    My question still stands, what happened in the bloody Garden of Eden?

  • designs
    designs

    Perry will now do the Fred Astaire dance routine...

    Iranaeus, Augustine, Calvin, Luther all endorsed "Ancestral Sin" from Adam & Eve based on Paul's writings in Romans and 1 Cor..

    Interesting the new Pope, Francis I, stated recently- the church no longer teaches a literal hell, it is incompatible with a loving God. The Eastern Orthodox churches have seen hell as a metaphysical seperation from God's love for centuries now. That leaves the Evangelical-Fundamentalist community holding the bag.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    May be slightly off topic,but relevant, I think.

    It is noticeable how the J W view has changed in recent years to those who die in this time after having had "a thorough Witness". It used to be the case that they were thought unlikely to get a ressurrection since they had demonstrated a rejection of the message. Now though, since Christ's judging of sheep and goats is seen to be a future event, they are happy to say that they are due a ressurrection....e.g a recently deceased relative who opposed it all their life!

    Of course if the same person had survived to see the Big A... then they would predict fire and brimstone as their lot

    There is now, officially, a real advantage in being dead

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Iranaeus, Augustine, Calvin, Luther all endorsed "Ancestral Sin" from Adam & Eve based on Paul's writings

    Paul's writings aren't even necessary to see that the Jews believed in inherited sin. The Eden account itself makes perfectly clear that the curses given to Adam and Eve applied to their children to the nth generation. The gender-specific curses applied to all men or to all women, and then of course there's the obvious one, the fact that they would die because they (and all their descendants) were being kept from the tree of life.

  • tec
    tec

    My question still stands, what happened in the bloody Garden of Eden?

    First, the Garden of Eden is in the spiritual realm. So that Adam had a spiritual body when in the garden of eden. That is important because it reveals a truth about how we 'inherited' sin, and death. He did not originally have this body that we have today which has sin and death in it... because this body is what God gave Adam re: the long garment of skin... AFTER he disobeyed and ate of death. (God did not give an animal skin to cover physical nakedness as some tradition would have men believe) But Adam originally had a body that was clean, that had life in it and NO death; and one that could move between the physical and the spiritual realm (as the angels can do now) Until he disobeyed, and ate, showing a lack of love for God, Eve, and all of his offspring, making him unclean (the nakedness that he was ashamed of and tried to cover with leaves when he hid from God)

    So despite God's warning that if they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that they would surely die (consequence, not punishment... eat and you will die; NOT eat and I will kill you)... Adam ate of that tree of the knowledge of good (life, something he already had)... and the knowledge of bad (death being part of bad).

    Ate of = take into oneself whatever it is one ate from.

    Knowledge of = knowing. Not knowing ABOUT, but having first-hand knowledge of something.

    So death entered Adam and Eve upon their eating. But God, in His mercy, fashioned for them a 'long garment of skin' (which again is not animal skin, but rather this vessel, this physical body), thereby trapping sin and death IN that vessel. So that the flesh gets sick and dies (because of the sin and death in it), but the spirit (who we truly are on the inside) does not have to get sick or die. Acting as a sort of 'shield'. Thereby SAVING Adam's offspring (who proved to be God's children) from the fate Adam had sold them to, and giving them the opportunity to find and have life, and to be able to eventually come BACK to the garden (spiritual realm, to be with Christ - the life - and God), and once again being able to access the tree of life (that is Christ).

    The alternative - if Adam had been killed on the spot or wiped out so that God 'started over' - is that we (each of us) do not exist at all. That would have been wiping all of us out as well, before we were even born. Something Adam's LACK of love (and perhaps ignorance as well, but the lack of love was present regardless) allowed him to risk. Something God... who could see and know who would come... would not do.

    So:

    Adam ate of death, bringing death into himself, and into the world, with his lack of love and disobedience; and as we were born from the man after he had been given THAT vessel, we TOO have that same vessel. That is why we get sick and die in the flesh. That is the 'inherited' sin.

    Interestingly... the garment of skin that Adam was given (that we have inherited) that has sin and death in it... is directly contrasted by the white robe that Christ gives (the spirit body made clean in Christ). Just to perhaps help you see how the 'garment of skin' and 'white robe'... are different kinds of bodies that we are given.

    I hope this helps and is not too confusing, that you may be able to at least get a sense of these truths, as the Spirit teaches them.

    May you be given ears to hear if you wish them, and also to hear as the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life"... which water is holy spirit, that is poured out of God, through Christ (who is the Spirit).

    Peace to you,

    Your servant in Christ,

    tammy

  • designs
    designs

    Apognophos- You really really need to speak with your local Rabbi, respectfully you have it ass-backwards.

  • cofty
    cofty

    There was no Adam and Eve - read some books.

    You are entitled to your own superstitions but not to your own facts.

    May you be given ears to hear if you wish them, and also to hear as the Spirit and the Bride say... - Tammy

  • alecholmesthedetective
    alecholmesthedetective

    ^^^^^^This^^^^^^

  • tec
    tec

    You may not like the answer, alec, but you DID ask the question.

    Peace,

    tammy

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