WANTING to Believe in God

by dobby 52 Replies latest jw friends

  • Unclepenn1
    Unclepenn1

    Liberty wrote >Sorry, but as far as I can see humanity was not changed by this event 2000 years ago any more than it was by works of Mohamed, Joseph Smith, Loa Tzu, Confusious, or the Buddha.

    I hate to seem disrespectful, but that is a statement out of total ignorance to the facts. If you wish, I can list a myriad of things that have transformed the world as we know it today. From medicine to language to heathcare to human rights to education to prison reform. Stop looking at things from the 21st century and look at history. If you want, I can get much more specific. I just dont have the time right now, but I would be willing to go into greater detail. Just say the word.

    Penn

  • Mazza
    Mazza

    Liberty, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings - but your comments shine out above the rest - to me anyway. Your view is the only one that makes real sense to me. Otherwise we are stuck trying to understand how God could be so remote to some and then so partial to others in the most detailed way at times. I had a believer tell me that God dried up the rain one day so her new formal frock wouldn't get spoilt. I didn't like to point out the obvious to her.

    Marilyn

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Unclepenn, I hate to seem disrespectful, but why are you arguing with Liberty when you are making his points for him?

  • Unclepenn1
    Unclepenn1

    HUH?????????

  • crownboy
    crownboy

    Unclepenn, none of the "Christain reforms" you speak of have anything to do with Christainty. It's like a Muslim saying the great accomplishments under the Islamic civilizations had to do with Islam. Since Islam has become a brain dead fundy religion, nothing great has really happened there, indeed many of the people who were the brains of the "Islamic renaissance" would be killed today as heretics because of their "unorthodox" views. Same with Christainity.

    When was Christanity at its greatest? During the Dark Ages. Yeah, civilization really advanced then[8>]. It was only when Christanity became more secular (and when Islam was secular), that any great societal advancement was made.

    Human rights? What about the crusades and slavery? Christanity endorsed both these practices (the later very explictly). The bible teaches bigotry against gays, despite there being no rational basis for it. There was great scientific and medical advancement under other religious orders too. It's only when secular culture forces Christanity to admit error that they make "positive changes" (e.g.: the earth being round). If it weren't for people standing up to "christanity", the horrible torturous punishments formerly administered "in the name of the Lord" would not register as human rights violations. Sure, Christains today are generally good people, but Jesus did not utter any "good sayings" that were original (compare to the Buddha, it's amazing the parallels). Hardly anyone took note of "easter Sunday 2000 years ago", until well after the events that had supposedly taken place had happen. Amazing how so few people converted to Christanity when they saw all these miracles, etc. .

    But to stay on topic, Christanity has done few great things to help mankind, and many to hurt. Most of Christanities "good points", e.g. respect for human life, has evolved with society, and in some cases was forced to evolve. All of the very successful contries today are secular, most theocracies are bastions of ignorance. While Christanity certainly has some good points, they're hardly so unique and significant, as to have left mankind limitlessly better.

  • circe2
    circe2

    Hi Dobby,

    What a great thread. Glad you started it.

    I'll start off by saying that I believe in God. My view of God is a "Panentheistic" one.

    I don't adhere to a particular religion. I don't follow any particular path. To follow a particular path means treading in the footsteps of someone else. Why should I follow someone else's path? I love exploration and adventure. Some "take the road less traveled"; I don't take a road at all.

    I grew up in Utah, with Mormonism all around. I followed Wicca for a while before Jehovah's Witnesses snagged me. I've studied Buddhism and Hinduism. (Now there's a rich treasure trove of insight: Hinduism. IMO.)

    I don't think any religion is "Truth", with a capital T. All of man's writings about God are man's way of trying to understand his relationship with existence and with the Divine.

    Arguing who has the correct view of God is perfectly illustrated by the Eastern story of the blind men and the elephant. Each man is touching a different part of the elephant and is arguing that they alone have the full picture. In actuality, they each have PART of the picture. If they combined their ideas they might be able to come up with a workable whole.

    Too many religions say "Our way is the only way". But like some of our more enlightened posters have pointed out, it doesn't have to be that way.

    circe

  • Unclepenn1
    Unclepenn1

    CrownBoy, I will adress your comments in another post. It will be called 'Just the facts please'. It will also cover the assertions that Liberty made. Keep an eye out for it.

    Warm regards,

    Penn

  • Solace
    Solace

    I believe in God.
    Im not sure if it is because I want to believe or because I need to believe. When I found out the truth about the org. I was very upset and I was about to write everything off alltogether too. Prayer and studying the bible put things into prespective for me. I have a completley different understanding of heaven than when I was a witness. This very subject is actually why I chose my username.
    I feel much more at peace believing that my loving grandparents are in heaven right now and not somewhere in "Gods memory". I also am enjoying feeling in my heart that God would not judge or condemn anyone by what "religion" they belong to.
    The, You have to go to my church to be saved, mentality.
    Give me a break.
    As if God cares what building, if any, you worship him in.

  • zanex
    zanex

    I am not sure WHAT I believe...agnosticism is a nice blanket...belive that something exists just dont know what...or dont have the faith to buy into anything...either way thats where I am at...

    -Z-

  • sunscapes
    sunscapes

    You're right SaintSatan, when Uncle Penn said, "Please don't!", my mind goes "Why not? What's there to hide?" It's like the WTS all over again. "Please don't study religious literature!" "Please don't read Crisis of Conscience (almost done now!)" "Please don't take post-secondary education!" Please don't THINK, for G*d's sake.

    Danion Brinkley, and PAM REYNOLDS come to mind of outstanding, well, not NEAR death, but DEATH experiences, as far as I'm concerned.

    Tell me this: how is it possible that the spiritual entity has not left the body when such ones can, for example, read a ceiling fan's label facing the TOP of the room and correctly recall it, or, in Pam's case, correctly describe complex medical instruments that she would have NO KNOWLEDGE OF, that is, she was a musician, not a medical professional. She describes it well, when she says that life on earth is like a UNIVERSITY for us to understand how to better live for eternity. A university means LEARNING, not "Please don't"!

    Please DO!

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