by wafflesandpancakes 52 Replies latest social relationships
Tell your wife that whatever she confesses and whatever she admits to in the subsequent interrogation, will be told to the other elders and in turn at least one elders wife - usually the bossy, self-important, gossip loving one.
Guess where that private information goes from there.
Splash
I feel for your wife, I was in the same boat feeling guilty for stuff that I had done years earlier. On top of that I found out that virtually everyone was doing stuff and never confessed.
But it was the way I was treated when I confessed that helped me find my way out of the borg.
This hardly matters, but I must say that the elder to whom your wife might confess most likey had sex with his wife before marriage.
best thing is to persuade your wife to confess out loud to jehovah--and if he wants her to go to the elders---he will say so.
Manipulation of genitals really boils down to intent: for examination, or for sexual gratification.
All females who've been to a gynecologist knows such specialists will manipulate their genitals for examination purposes, using a speculum as the patient sits in a chair with stirrups, etc, but most will do it in a cold and clinical manner to make it clear to the pt they are medical professionals who maintain the dr/patient relationship at all times, and are not some pervert who's doing it to get their jollies.
A few gyns have crossed the line and abused their pt's trust by inappropriately touching in an attempt to sexually-stimulate the pt (or even whipped out their own member to rape the pt), etc, and faced the legal consequences. Fortunately, such situations are rare, but there's a few MDs who are serving time in prison for such crimes.
As her non-gynecologist husband, and from your own admission, your touch was sexual in nature.
OP said-
during our engagement, we fooled around and touch each other down there. It's not a "tap" but definitely is not "stimulation". I tried to convince my wife, who, after 5 years of marriage, strangely felt guilty all the sudden, that its not do called porneia. Well i am fading and shes still in, so thats probably why i'm not guilt ridden.
I'm wondering what could motivate such a case of late-onset guilt, and the prime suspect in my mind is you've been fading as you learned TTATT, and she's scared and at her wit's end about what your waking up means to her; she's grasping at straws, literally trying a last-ditch effort to force the issue to a head (no pun intended).... She's likely making a power play here, trying to get the elders on her side. Proceed with caution.
If you haven't had a heart-to-heart talk with her, reassuring her of your love for her, now might be the time. Appeal to her authentic personality, and if you don't know what I'm referring to you should read Steve Hassan book (Jgnat will be along to recommend the title; brain fart, as I don't remember it).
BTW, do NOT profess your "unconditional love" for her, unless you mean it and you're willing to follow her demands that you "return to the flock and repent", if you're not willing to do so.
Adam
Remember when we used to laugh at the Catholics!
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"Imagine", we said, "people so dumb that they sin
on a friday nite & then go to 'confession' & tell
on themselves to a man" (priest)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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JW's just are not THINKING!
clarity
"speculum as the patient sits in a chair"
REALLY? Sitting in a chair? A fantasy ??
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The equivalent would be a male sitting in a chair
while a doctor examines his prostate! lol
clarity
Sad to think that a group of men would have this kind of power over a person's mind.
clarity said-
Remember when we used to laugh at the Catholics! "Imagine", we said, "people so dumb that they sin on a friday nite & then go to 'confession' & tell on themselves to a man" (priest)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JW's just are not THINKING!
And that, EVEN AFTER having just read Jesus' words, where he points to the human tendency of being unable to recognize one's own flaws by using the metaphor of wood, noting how many are able to see the splinters in the eyes of others, but are quite unable to see the rafter in one's own.
It's arguably the wisest words spoken by Jesus, a cognitive bias that is well-known to psychologists and labelled as 'illusory superiority' (and called the Lake Wobegon Effect, and described by Garrison Keillor of a paradoxical town where all the citizens were impossibly above-average compared to the others, although it's NOT impossible that each might BELIEVE they are better than the rest).
Adam
EDIT:
Clarity said-
REALLY? Sitting in a chair? A fantasy?? The equivalent would be a male sitting in a chair while a doctor examines his prostate! lol
Nope, not fantasy, but reality. Some ob/gyns use tables, but others prefer chairs with stirrups, eg:
Chairs can be used, since unlike examination of the prostate gland (which is palpated by the doc sticking a gloved finger up the pt's anus, and why the anus is referred to as one's posterior), a pt's vagina is typically accessible from the front (anterior) and can be accessed while they are reclined in a chair.
In fact, that's why some docs prefer using a chair: it's a patient-perception issue, and many patients feel less-vulnerable sitting vs having to lay on a flat table, esp since stirrups holding one's legs in a spread-eagle position looks like enough of an uncomfortable position, as it is.
Adam
The same thing happened to my wife and I. After we were married at least 5 years or more and had a child there was this talk given at the meeting about how Jehovah wasn't blessing our Congregation. There hadn't been any growth in years and they said it was because someone was hiding some wrongdoing. They urged anyone who might have something to tell the Elders to come forward. My wife, after me asking/pleading for her not to, told the elders we engaged in "Heavy Petting" (still kinda' angry with her about that). It was totaly humiliating for her and they asked detailed questions, especially this one clod of an elder who used terms like "probing" and "fondling". Afterward she never felt the same about the Elders or the congregation (a good thing I guess) even though they said it was "all water under the bridge" and not to worry about it. I'm surprised they didn't come after me because I didn't go with her to tell on myself.
At the Circuit Assembly a few days later, we both noticed independantly of one another, that the fat, nosey wife of that "Clod" elder started giving us knowing looks and smirking and giving us sideways glances . She kept looking me up and down every time I walked by her, I even saw her glance at my crotch. It was as if she was trying to let us know that "she knew" about us.
That Elder was disfellowshiped shortly (weeks) after that himself for cheating on his disgusting wife with some woman he worked with. That was probalby the wrongdoing that was supposedly hinderig Jehovah's spirit on the Congregation. We often wondered who he or she told and what records are still on file about us especially now that we have both faded. What if someday one of our JW relatives starts going to that hall and reads our file ?
After that all happened is when I started to phase myself out of the Ministry School and eventually quit going in service altogether. Until my wife faded herself, she always felt guilty for causing my eventual demise as a JW for having been disloyal to me about something that should have been kept between only us.
