LisaRose, you are so correct. I also remember around 1990 when we had CA overseer that make small speach how Armageddon is about to happen becaue the annoited felt that something was happening the heaven and saw angles alarmed. I had afterward long private discussion with son of the elder who walked away around the same time as I did, and he was shaking his head on such nonsense. My evil JW aunt that dragged my family into WT used to say the same that Armageddon is just happening around us, and the end was imminent. I remember hearing it as child in the 70's, teen in the 80's and hear it from my relatives as adult 40 year later. And for life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday, and people age and die, and no big "A" is happening in their lifes.
3 years of study, Just found out!
by impala63rag 137 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
abbagail
I'm just curious what age group is Impala & what age group is the JW couple conducting the "Bible study"? Same ages (as equal friends), or younger/older (as in a "parental" type fondness developed between you guys)? Either/or would make it emotionally hurtful for them to appear to be "bailing out" now.
Also, the TIMING seems very suspect that "all the sudden" the JW couple are planning to move an "hour" away, after two weeks of being "sick," & all that immediately after Impala began asking questions! It could be they are attempting to create "distance" to "back away slowly." You/Impala could say, "Hey, an hour is nothing. I'd be happy to drive over to YOUR NEW PLACE for our regular Bible study every week!" & just see how they RE-ACT (do they "fudge" & say, "Oh well, we can't expect you to do that..." etc.)
If they are sincerely fond of you, maybe his being "sick" for two weeks was the "flu of cognitive dissonance" setting in & he genuinely doesn't know what to do about it. Maybe he felt tormented himself. Moving to a new congregation an hour away could be just the "remedy" so he "doesn't have to deal with it" cognitively.
I'd say go ahead a "fade away" from JWs & WT-Theology which would just take you in circles anyway, all the while tied to a "Governing-Body Leash" of "worshipful masters" whom you would eventually be expected to "bow down to."
But don't "fade away" from the Bible. You can STILL have a "Bible study" of your own, by yourself, just you & the Lord & the Holy Spirit as your guide, researching whatever subject one at a time; &/or you can sit back in your home & take advantage of Bible Study via the TV. If you live in the USA & can access the ION Network (used to be called PAX Network), check out the program called "Through the Bible with Les Feldick." It's on in the mornings, approx. 9am Eastern, weekdays. Nothing but a chalkboard, the Bible, a small audience, & Les, who goes through the entire Bible, verse by verse, chapter by chapter, from Genesis to Revelation, but you can jump in anytime (it takes about 4 years straight, M-Th, to go through all the programs. Then they start airing it again from the beginning). It's really good!
If you are loving Bible study the past 3 years, you will love this, promise! THEN you will have SOMETHING *ELSE* to compare to WT's teachings!! >> And THAT is what is missing with most people who get snookered by the JWs/WT. They (self included) had or have ZERO prior Bible Study experience under their belt so they easily fall for whatever the JWs/WT tells them. Once you learn the DIFFERENCE between WT-Theology vs. Pauline (Apostle Paul) Christian Theology, you will never fall for WT's perverted version ever again. Truly, your eyes will be opened! The Lord Jesus Christ is THE HEAD of HIS Body of Believers, period. No middle-man/org/Governing-Body is needed. Jesus will be your head, period.
You will also learn how to read/interpret scripture in its correct CONTEXT vs. WT's way of plucking scriptures UP & OUT of CONTEXT to apply it to THEIR interpretation rather than allowing the verses to INTERPRET THEMSELVES! (that is SO IMPORTANT & something JWs will never learn as long as they are attached to the WT-Heirarchy/GB/"Popes" who interpret everything FOR THEM). You will also learn the difference between ALLEGORIZING (spiritualizing) scripture vs. reading the Bible LITERALLY for what it actually says! You will also learn how to "rightly divide" Scripture, what books apply to whom, etc. (WT thinks they are Ancient Israel & apply all the OT verses to THEMSELVES. But if you read what the Bible actually SAYS, it clearly says those verses were for, hello, ANCIENT ISRAEL, etc. etc.). Last but NOT least, you will learn the difference between GRACE vs. WORKS regarding Salvation! The best "good news" ever!
Watch a couple of Les Feldick programs & see what you think. You'll notice a big difference in short measure. No "leader" to follow but Christ, no "dues" to be paid, no "leash," no "hidden rules," etc. Just pick whatever Bible, even the NWT if you want, & follow along for a few lessons & see what you think. If you work in the mornings, maybe you can tape it via a VCR. It's M-Th for 1/2 hour, but 2 back-to-back lessons on Thurs., so 2.5-hours a week. Or you can listen via audio online (lesfeldick.org), or video at youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LesFeldickMinistries
Les is just a cattle rancher in Oklahoma, & was a Sunday School teacher in the old days until one of the students asked him a question he couldn't answer from the 'scripted' lessons provided to him to teach by (sound familiar?). That's when he began studying the Bible for himself, so then he eventually began conducting small group studies in his home area of Oklahoma for 20 years. Then one of his students said he should be on TV, which was something he never planned to do, but the students worked it out with the Midwest local TV station, & that's how it began. No big "church group," no weird "cult crap," etc. The program ran once per week for 19 years, Genesis to Revelation. Les retired from the live TV programs at age 83 just a few years ago, but the program still airs on TV continuously, & Les & his wife, Iris, still travel around by car conducting studies & small seminars when he is invited to do so by various churches, etc. He's not a "reverend," nor a "preacher." Just a "Bible teacher." Best thing I ever ran across on TV since exiting the JWs back in 1990! (found Les by flipping channels back in 2006!) Enjoy!
-
problemaddict
Hey Impala,
Thanks for the update. May I respectfully ask you a question? What "made sense" about their response? Alot of JWisms are simply semantics.
Do the GB speak for God? - Of course not. The bible does. But since they only teach biblical truths, they are supported by the holy spirit although not directly inspired.
What!? What does that mean? It means nothing. What if they teach something NOT as truth from the bible (which they have a long history of?). Then what? Why if they are not inspired, must you follow THEM in order to be approved by God?
The correlations between these men and Moses....casually in the WT lessons, put anyone who does not agree with them as Korah! Pretty amazing.
In addition, disfellowshipping has nothing to do with the scripture they showed you. It was talking about apersonal issue you have with your brother. Go speak to them if there is fault. if they tell you to shove off, take an advocate. If they insist on continuing to _____, treat them as a "tax collector". Tax collectors were not thought highly of, but let me ask you this. If someone was a tax collector, did their family never speak to them? Were they shunned publicly?
I don't smoke. I think tabacco and cigarette companies are generally evil. A "sales rep" for Marlboro would not be on my list for persn of the year. In fact, I may not think highly of them for what they do for a living. But would I refuse to speak to them?
Nothing about the JW shunning policy is biblical. Here is what you can ACTUALLY be disfellowshipped for, including ACTUAL experiences here that people have gone through.
1) Celebrating your birthday or a forbidden holiday.
2) Commiting a sin and the elders finding out about it before you tell them (this is considered a lack of "godly sadness")
3) Disgreeing with any "current" understanding as taught by the GB and telling anyone about your thoughts even casually.
4) Damn near anything else, you are deemed unrepentant for. I personally knew someone DF'd for seeing a rated R movie, and telling the elders they would not meet with them over it. Can you believe it? I knew another person DF'd for not believing in 1914, and not recanting.
5) Saluting the flag.
6) Voting.....even in local elections over minor things like propositions.
AND MUCH MORE.
The process for DFing? 3 elders have you in a room by yourself. They are led by a manual you are not allowed to read "sheperd the flock of God". They have you explain in detail what happened (imagine you fornicated which is pretty common). Then they have you leave the room while they discuss it. Then they bring you back in and tell you whats up, or call you the next day.
Any of that in the bible? If you want to bring a witness/advocate with you....they refuse and will not allow it, and will DF you in abstentia.
Any of that in the bible?
I appreciate you love these people, and they have a religion to support and are probably sincere....but they are soft peddleing this to you. Pure and simple.
That being said, it is your life, and you need to make the decisions best for you and the fam. I hope things are well with you. If you want any help in your discussions with them, just let me know.
-
kaik
JW do not believe that person can read bible on his own and develop a personal relationship with God and Creator. They see higher priority in developing relationship with WT as their imaginary arc in the sea of Satan. They expect that everything will be served to you by the GB and the laiks will accept whatever spiritual food is served regardless what the conciense says. It becomes much easier as JW do not need a critical thinking and analytical skills. Since the time of the ancient Israel, Jews were not unified on interpretation of the Old Testament, and Christianity is struggling with the same issues for 2000 years. Yet JW thinks that they can and will answer any problems and issues using Scriptures regardless what hundreds of years of studies by others was not accomplished. Once anyone question the spiritual food even in good faith, he or she will be labeled as apostate and will be isolated or DF's. This makes critical analysis of OT and NT difficult as many are afraid to find something that is against JW teaching. As I child we had home based bible studies, we had only one copy of WT and we had to share it. JW was illegal, and we had to use scriptures. Later in the 1980's, home based bible studies were forbidden. I am actually amazed that my parents that could find anything in the bible 30 years ago could not recollect today even common passages like Jesus and Samaritan woman by the well. Yet they know almost any WT theme between then and last Sunday.
-
Shanagirl
Don't believe everything they "teach" you about the "truth". Part of developing a close relationship with you is due to a regular practice of "love bombing" newly interested ones. They will be your friend, and invite you to dinner, and associate with other JW's, and keep inviting you to meetings where you will experience more "love bombing" to hook you in even more. This is their MO. Not all members who leave and get disfellowshipped, will be treated as hatefully as my family was treated when we tried to expose a long time pedophile in the congregation. It took it's toll on me and yet I survived it. When their headquarters and their elders and travelling overseers turn on you and try to use their watchtower lawyers against you, it becomes evident this is a hateful religion hiding behind a facade of rank and file members expected to follow along with the belief that God only loves you if you are a baptized Jehovah Witness and must warn the rest of the world that God is going to kill each and every one who doesn't become a believer. They will use scriptures to prove what a killer god, this Jehovah, is to those who were not worshippers of this bloodthirsty god who demands blood and animal sacrifices.
You have honorable and good desires to develop a relationship with God. You can do this thru prayer and faith in Jesus Christ who himself never once mentioned the Old Testament Jehovah as his True Father in Heaven. His teachings were opposite of the Old Testament Jehovah's unmerciful way of dealing with the Israelites and the nations around them. Jehovah is an entirely different god than the one Christ taught about as his Heavenly Father, a God of Love. Get to know this True God that Jesus taught about, and just keep praying for guidance, and you will know that something is just so wrong with their "us against the world" teachings. I am sure in the bible studies you have with them they are using their publications to frame the way your study is going. Just use your powers of critical thinking, and love your family and stay close to them, because the Witnesses will try to drive a wedge between you and your family if they cannot convert them thru you.
Shana
-
impala63rag
I'm just curious what age group is Impala & what age group is the JW couple conducting the "Bible study"?
We are in our mid-thirties.
But don't "fade away" from the Bible.
I haven't decided on where to go from here yet., but I will definatly continue to study and build a greater relationship with God.
Watch a couple of Les Feldick programs & see what you think.
I'll check it out. Sounds good. Thanks for the tip btw.
What "made sense" about their response?
Matthew 15-17. I trust what is written. I know that there is interpretation, old vs. new testament, etc.. So I am still shaken. It's hard for me to fathom a God that I interpret as love and forgiveness to teach something I perceive to be hateful and judgmental.
Do the GB speak for God? - Of course not. The bible does.
There was one thing that was said I feel very uneasy about. When questioning the GB and WT I was told "The Bible wasn't written directly by God. The Bible is just a collection of letters by congregations and people inspired by God." It seemed as if she was questioning the ligitamacy of the Bible to give credibility to the WT.
There was something else that confused me. I was in a restaurant this week and the woman I study with was there with 2 others from the KH. They came over to say hi and one of the women just out of nowhere says "JW have been around for thousands of years, this is not a new religion at all!" I had seen a movie with the couple I study with that said it had started with a Bible study in the late 1800's and didn't get the name JW till the 30's or something like that. So I mentioned it, she responded with something that made absolutely no sense to me. I told her so. The woman I study with had a big 'ol grin (that they didn't see) but it just seemed a little left of the field imo.
That being said, it is your life, and you need to make the decisions best for you and the fam. I hope things are well with you. If you want any help in your discussions with them, just let me know.
Thank you!
speaking of the Fam. My son just got back from a "Chysalis" "Ammaus Walk" (aka Bible Camp) this weekend. All is good on the homefront.
p.s. the dogs (Yorkies) got a fresh haircut today, so even they are happy.
-
Black Sheep
You should be more worried about your son's involvement with Emmaus, than your relationship with the Watchtower.
-
abbagail
We are in our mid-thirties.
Ahhh, youngins' still. :) Thanks for the info. I can see where the three of you would become good friends over such a long haul of three years.
But don't "fade away" from the Bible.
I haven't decided on where to go from here yet., but I will definatly continue to study and build a greater relationship with God.
Excellent. And who knows, all of this may lead to you learning things they don't know & getting to share it with them just maybe will help THEM to wake up from the stranglehold of WT-ism!
Watch a couple of Les Feldick programs & see what you think.
I'll check it out. Sounds good. Thanks for the tip btw.
You're welcome! I really think you'll like it since you already appreciate Bible study via just the Bible.
When questioning the GB and WT I was told "The Bible wasn't written directly by God. The Bible is just a collection of letters by congregations and people inspired by God."
Maybe those JWs who said that are "newbies" themselves, or the "dumbing down" of JWs is no joke afterall! Whew, because that is a terrible answer, & I never heard such a thing in my JW days: "...a collection of letters by CONGREGATIONS AND PEOPLE..."? I can't think of one Bible book that was written by a "congregation," lol. I guess they never heard that one of Jesus' titles is "THE WORD OF GOD." (John 1:1 & Rev. 19:13). And this...
"JW have been around for thousands of years, this is not a new religion at all!"
That's the line they are brainwashed with. In my early years of discovering TTATT, I visited a website of testimonies of former "Worldwide Church of God" folks, & their descriptions of what they were taught re their church's history was EXACTLY THE SAME wording that WT uses. That was an eye-opener!