Where is Jesus according to the WBTS? (page 3)

Frazzled UBM

AndDon'tCallMeShirley - that is a great point thanks - I will ask that question. Also thank you for your entertaining comments (you and Outlaw always make me laugh). Cheers Fraz

KateWild

Russell taught that the end would come in 1914, it wasn't until the early 1930's that WT taught Christ ruled from heaven in 1914.

AS far as I can tell the GB simpoly asserts that they were appointed without any details around the circumstances of the appointment. How do they get away with this?-Fraz

This is the point, the only point and one that really matters. Keep this in the forefront of your mind and you will be able to reverse witness to him well. Don't use this point against him though Fraz, just keep it in mind. He will use the bible teach book to have a study with you, there are two main calculation errors in there that historians cannot confirm.

Get to know him, make a friend of him, show concern for his situation and circumstances, build trust that way you can really do some good in the long term. Go for it and enjoy.

Kate xx

donny

In my experieces since leaving the Witnesses, I always direct them back to the "inspection" period and make them take a long, deep thought about what they are claiming in todays "present truth." They state that Jesus sat down on his throne in October of 1914 and for the next 4 and 1/2 years looked down upon the earth to see who was doing Jehovah's will.

A group of workers known then as International Bible Students were the only ones who had kept on the watch and had declared 1914 as the time of his return.

The problem is that they were not "on the watch" because they had believed Jesus had returned in 1874. According to this group, Jesus had been back for 44.5 years when he supposedly selected them as the faithful and discreet slave in the spring of 1919.

And as he selected them, they were in the midst of creating even more false teachings which they continue to do to this day, i.e. millions now living will never die, Armageddon in 1925, in the "remaining months" of 1941, 1975, the generation of 1914, etc.

I still amaze myself that I was able to revel in such delusional thinking.

Donny

AndDontCallMeShirley

To your points, Donny, the WT teaches that Jesus saw all the "Babylonish" doctriness and practices the WT was involved with in 1918/1919, so He had to "discipline" the leaders of the WT by allowing them to be imprisoned. WT was using the Cross, celebrating Christmas and birthdays, was not neutral to military service, accepted blood transfusions and still believed, as you stated, that Jesus returned in 1874 and that 1799 marked the beginning of the last days. WT's foundation of promoting false prophecies by itself nullifies any other claims WT makes.

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What JWs fail to realize is this: The WT changed none of these teachings/practices for which they were "disciplined" by Jesus, but he allegedly let them out of prison anyway and blessed the WT as his 'organization' !!! And, WT continued to accept and practice these "Babylonish" doctrines for many years afterwards....but apparently Jesus had no problem with it. It wasn't until 1943 that the WT officially changed the date of Jesus' return from 1874 to 1914.

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In reality, WT was no different than any other religion- it had some things right, but a lot of things wrong. What compelling reason would Jesus have to choose WT over any other religion? None!!

Ding

I think they would say Jesus is in heaven and that he "returned" only in that he "turned his attention to the affairs of the earth."

Now he's getting ready for Armgeddon...

KateWild

It wasn't until 1943 that the WT officially changed the date of Jesus' return from 1874 to 1914.- ADCMS

JWfacts.com says it was 1930,1931 and 1932. Kate xx

It was not until the Golden Age, 1930 Apr 30 that it was said that Jesus rulership started in 1914. This was repeated in the 1931 booklet, The Kingdom, the Hope of The World and then theWatchtower in 1932 :

"In 1914 Jehovah placed is royal Son upon his holy hill in Zion..." Watchtower 1932 Nov 1 p.325

Oubliette

Duh, Jesus is invisibly present and, evidently, he has been since 1914.

We know this because the GB says so.

KateWild

Fraz,

The JW at work will not know what JWs and Bible students have always believed and the changes that took place. If you stick to the Bible teach book and get to know him really well it will have more of an effect than you telling him the history of his own religion.

Paul Grundy of JWfacts.com states that certain things cause ones to look at alternative material. Loss of a loved one, Dfing of a loved one, lack of love in the cong, loss of a loved one through not taking blood, treatment of a judicial commitee. Personally I don't think he will be interested in teaching you about the history of his organisation as that is not what he is indoctrinated to do. He will be interested in going through the study program he has been told to do.

If he has issues and problems in the cong, which he will have, that is your way in for reverse witnessing. Changes in doctrine is not the way to go IMO, looking at the fallaces of current teachings and breaking them down would be more effective I think, but that is just my view.

Kate xx

Frazzled UBM

Kate - this guy is reasonable bright and seems open to listen to what I have to say (unlike my wife) and appears sincere in looking at the Proclaimers book to answer the questions I have put to him. So I am following the approach proposed by Donny and by the Captives of a Concept book by getting him to do the research to answer my questions and discover things for himself and it will be interesting to see if I make any headway. He mentioned toi me that he was comfortable witht he fact that the doctrine changed and I responded by saying that this would be fine if the WBTS acknowledged that their doctrine was siomply their understanding and that it may change ion teh future and they were open to comments about their understanding but that that was ntop what they did - they said it is the Truth and they shun people if they don't accept it lock, stock and barrel. He hasn't responded to that email yet. Anyway - it is interesting. Cheers Fraz

AndDontCallMeShirley

@ KateWild:

WT had, in typical fashion, slowly began hinting that the 1874 date was being changed, as you cited, but as the quote below shows, it became official in 1943.

I was referring to this WT information:

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/failed-1914-predictions.php

When Jesus earthly kingdom did not eventuate in 1914, Watchtower publications began to promote 1915. When 1915 amounted to nothing, the entire meaning of all Russell's prophetic interpretation required rewriting. It took until 1943for the new understanding to finally be clarified.

"In the year 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the book "The Truth Shall Make You Free." This moved forward the end of six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the 1970's. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date of return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his invisible presence or parousia. Page 324 of the above book positively says: "The King's presence or parousia began in 1914."" God's Kingdom on a Thousand Years Has Approached p.209

Where is Jesus according to the WBTS?

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