Question to atheists: if there is no creator/god---

by prologos 92 Replies latest jw friends

  • prologos
    prologos

    thank you for helping me to sort this out.

    alonein321 :

    you state that a higher intelligence than us would have to be SEEN by causual effects in observed phenomena IN the universe. How about outside this Universe, the Cosmos as Dr. Penrose claims?

    Onthewayout :

    I am clear too that the gods of old, are not more intelligent then humans, as many threads here show the inconsistencies of the bible accounts. so: "WHAT created God?" to my understanding the question is moot, because our existence & thinking depends on our movement THROUGH time (one event after another), that started with beginning of spacetime. The postulated 'creator', not moving through time, could not have a beginning. All the "awesome" things you mentioned were wrought with/from unintelligent energy. Pure energy, light, also does not move through time.

    Phizzy,

    you are a visionary. "--if other universes do not YET exist, it will not be long before man has the ability himself to produce some more himslf, Play God indeed." would that not be a demonstration of the original creative process ?, the present Universe having such a higher energy content and seminal laws to govern the wind-down-up process? If our minds improve, would they reach the level to create energy?

    punkofnice:

    yes, this is not about other, [exotic] CREATURES, existence is a gift. get on with it. but while doing it use the idle brainpower to meditate on the BIG questions too.

    scotoma:

    how can alien visit us yet be of lower intelligence (creative ability) then we? and The competion of males has served the evolutionary process well,and not all of that is combat. How about the male display in dance, prancing, display of extravagance, wealth? advanced BROTHERS? enforcing 'Fraternite, Egalite', Liberte'!' you believe? how about going further back the ancestry level?

    galaxie:

    primitive brains trying to make tools, fire, housing,-- found out how hard that is and how brains excelled over brawn. so they looked at the big stuff like the Milky stuff in the sky, really hot fire, lightning and realized somebody before them already did it on a bigger scale. we are not primitive any more, but still that prior work is awesome.

    islandman:

    other superior beings? higher fellow creature? co-creators?

    DJS:

    The existence of aliens is doubted, scotomas observations notwithstanding. It is a painfull task to do space/time travel, it is not done to visit a zoo, as you rightly observed. They would come bearing gifts? to find Lebensraum? Despite their technology, Nazies were NOT! intellectual Supermen.

    redvip2000:

    yes there is that possibility of a non-involved creator, but why would he want to solve life's PROBLEMS, if tackling them successfully is a sign of intelligence, a inbred quality of life that makes evolution possible? rewarding success seems to be the operational model of the universe, without direct 'help from a friend'.

    cofty,

    like Phizzy you make intelligence contingent on life, material life , possible, but rare, as you mentioned. It is true, our minds are a product of activity in our physical and alive brains, hence the importance of the life sciences.

    mind you, reality in the cosmos might by stranger than pure fiction.

    su a voir:

    cofty is one of the brightest lights here, so, if he was an elder once, it proves that really, "the light gets brighter and brighter" and is an encouragement for others to "follow in his footsteps closely".

    all the good posts and the development are great to be seen, (a voir).

  • bigmac
    bigmac

    i am the most intelligent person i know.

    except for cantleave--obviously. hes more intelligent than me.

    but then--so is phizzy

    which can only mean cantleave and phizzy are the same person.

  • prologos
    prologos

    redvip2000. : you call the opening post formated as a "LINEAR question" good point. often things become clearer when simplified. We can visualize movement through time better when deducting space dimensions in our model. so a sheet or better LINEAR presentation helps understanding.

    Are we, or the likes of us, the ultimate intelligence in the cosmos? or evident in the cosmos? unique in using energy, information, procreating or just creating in the cosmos?

    some, sometimes just create noise like the proposed fuzzy trinity around Phizzy

  • DJS
    DJS

    My ex-GF thinks the entire universe revolves around her. I guess that makes her the supreme being. Intelligent? Not so much. But I didn't like her for her intelligence ;-)

  • galaxie
    galaxie

    Prologos, Sacre bleu ! My assumptions of primitive mans thinking is of course based on the fact that today we have millions of people believing in this supernatural powerhouse known as god.

    This idea obviously had to have germinated by thought process. It is my and many others belief that the concept came about because of primitive mans ignorance re situations which they had no control over but had positive/negative influence on their lives.

    Making tools and progression has nothing to do with the conjuring up of a notion of a god/gods.

    Or do you think it all started with the author of genesis?

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    I was an atheist until I realized I was god.

  • Decided
    Decided

    All I know for sure is we all die in a few years here on earth.

    No one knows what happens to what was life after that. The God of Christains will put us in a hell fire forever if we don't believe in him(according to some christains) others think we go back to dirt.

    Life is a mystery and so is death is some ways.

    Ken P.

  • prologos
    prologos

    DJS if you danced the waltz, or did aerobatics with your girlfriend, it really appears as if the universe revolves around you,-- both.

    The earliest light detected also looks very much the same in ALL directions. but, declaring in so many other words that we are the highest form of ego is another matter, or anti - matter, matter-less.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Q.: if you are sure there is no god, do you then believe that we,our minds, are the highest intelligence? not just of the universe, but the cosmos?

    A.: I don't know, I haven't met them all yet.

  • prologos
    prologos

    galaxie: WT writers and the bible books themselfs claim that they are spirit directed, inspired [by god]. Do I believe even GEN. 1:1, NO, because it is factually wrong:

    In the BEG inning god did NOT make the heavens and the EARTH, athe beginning of space and matter had a beginning some 13+billions of years ago, only some 8 billion years LATER, enough metals, earth, had been cooked up in dying stars to make the earth. That BEG s the question how can that sacred & majestic text be 300% OFF in timing? close to the WT record in prediction accuracy too. coincidence?

    The issue whether we are the highest achieving Thinkers in the COSMOS, is not a question that has anything to do, or originated in OUR minds, because what-ever energy and order is out there PRECEDED us, existed whether we look at it or not.

    I agree with you some god-stories might have been concocted because of terryfying mysterious happenings, thunder, storms, floods, but the idea of an older superb-maker, must have come from mankind's struggle to do quality work.

    The cave painting, building of monuments are in part men's attempt to leave testimonies to their creative prouesse, not just energetically but intellectually.So,

    from a worker's standpoint it is hard to think we are the highest expression of capabilities, even in power of thought.

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