Question to atheists: if there is no creator/god--- (page 6)

cofty

Why can't you understand agnostics haven't decided yet?

I do. I just don't think it requires a label.

prologos

smiddy, you are right, that I would like to take the idea of THEOS, God out of 'atheist' and refine it to non belief in a creator rather divinity.

cofty, even in your good comments i see the trace of a budding agnostic, when it comes to creation rather than worship.

cofty

You read me wrong. I am certain life arose and evolved by unguided natural processes.

I see no evidence of a higher intelligence, that doesn't mean that I think we are the most intelligent species in the universe. It just means space is incredibly vast and the limit of the speed of light means that intersolar travel is likely to be as insurmountable a problem for an alien species as it is for us. Even if they manage to come up with some way of travelling between stars they still have to deal with relativity, this would mean any alien sufficiently advanced to travel to our planet would likely be as alien to their own species as they would be to us. These are the reasons that we should expect to see no evidence of alien intelligence. Am I arrogant enough to think that we are the most intelligent species in the universe? No, because I don't discount the idea there may be other alien life out there or that it may be more intelligent than us. They would be bound by the same laws of physics as we are so I find the lack of evidence for them unsurprising.

I think statistically, it is extremely likely that there are other intelligent beings in the universe just due to the sheer number of planets there are. Any alien species intelligent or not will have appeared due to entirely natural means, ie through abiogenesis and evolution.

Apognophos, unfortunately the limits of knowledge apply to all, atheist and theist alike. As far as I am concerned from the point of view you are espousing we are all agnostic.

galaxie

Intelligence, gives us as a species the ability to understand learn, but also how we use that ie methodical intelligence

Are we seen as intelligent if we use our abilities in a detrimental way?

Theism has IMO been detrimental to humanity in many ways

Whereas non belief itself harms no one as there is no agenda for athiests to demand allegiance of.

And no god to defend(to the death at times)

As far as higher intelligence somewhere in the vastness of the cosmos , I think is beyond our ken.

But am I intelligent enough to say , absolutely not but who knows?

prologos

Caedes, yes, 'c' is material beings limit, but what if life is entangled at the smallest level?

even so, the embodyment of apparent intelligence looms for us to solve.

cofty

...and we will onlt solve it by assuming no intelligence was involved - methodological naturalism is the bedrock of discovery.

Caedes

Prologos,

Your first question, I would say show me the empirical evidence that this matters at the macro scale? At micro scale our atoms are mostly nothing, it doesn't mean you can walk through walls.

Second question, I can't say that I understand what you are asking? What exactly do you mean by embodiment of apparent intelligence?

Apognophos

Apognophos, unfortunately the limits of knowledge apply to all, atheist and theist alike. As far as I am concerned from the point of view you are espousing we are all agnostic.

Well, I recognize certainly that atheists are not saying it's 100% impossible that a Creator exists, just that they think it's unlikely that there's a God. So in that sense a doubtful agnostic's POV can overlap with an atheist's. Unfortunately people assign different shades of meaning to the two 'a' words so it becomes difficult to even hold a conversation about them. That's why, if I'm speaking loosely, I identify as an agnostic, but when I am trying to express myself precisely, I say I am ignostic.

So perhaps I shouldn't claim to speak for agnostics but, to me, a true agnostic feels that our current level of knowledge is completely inadequate to judge the likelihood of God's existence, therefore one can only shrug or say that the odds are 50/50 that he exists. This differs from the atheist who for some reason feels confident that God is unlikely. This confidence is sometimes based upon restricted word definitions, e.g., "God" meaning YHWH of the Bible, or even just a certain Christian sect's conception of this God. Thus, an ignostic rejects the very question of God's existence, for being uselessly imprecise.

Viviane

Am I wrong to say that an atheist is a person that is convinced that there ia no creator? or is it 'that there is 'no God' only?

Depends on the atheist. For me it just means I have no evidence to lead me to believe in God or anything supernatural.

is there a word for a 'non-believer in a Creator',

Yes. Atheist.

a claim as grandiose( even if unintended) of atheists, 'we are the highest intelligence (just watch us develop further)'

You are painting with an awfully road brush. I have never made that claim nor would I, nor would most of the people I know. You are making claims about what other people say and those claims are easily shown to NOT be true.

Caedes, yes, 'c' is material beings limit, but what if life is entangled at the smallest level?

Question to atheists: if there is no creator/god---

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