ATMs in assembly halls

by Xanthippe 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • emeth
    emeth

    @Splash

    1. in the Netherlands all people have bankcards that is not the same as a credit card.

    2. dozens of articles (in the watchtower & awake) about money, debt etc etc say over and over again that people must not spent what they dont have and not to buy things someone cant afford. So every brother or sister is aware of this advise. The bible (and also a recent study article in the watchtower) tells us that taking care of the needs for the family (food, clothing and shelter) must have a priority. And that when you offer something to Jehovah but neglect your family it is in vain.

    So we are taught only to give what we can give and of what we have, and not to give if we dont have it or cant give because of other priorities.

  • stillin
    stillin

    I first heard that there would ATMs at the assemblies right here on this forum. So I used this knowledge in conversation with a few Witnesses who did NOT know. "isn't it disgusting how money-grubbing the churches of Babylon the Great are? They now have ATMs at some of the churches!" And, of course, the faithful brothers would bobble-head their agreement, making a mental note and using their indignation in future conversations. Until they saw them at a JW assembly!

    hahahaha!

  • mynameislame
    mynameislame

    emeth, the problem isn't the cards it is, as Blondie pointed out, that they critisized other religions for doing the same thing.

  • emeth
    emeth

    @MNIL the stories that blondie came up with are not relevant. Some of them are 30 - 40 years old.

    And the one of 2003 (which is not an article in Awake! but just a quote from a news article that appeared in a newspaper) is talking about atm's in local churches (like having atm's in local Kingdom Halls) and putting copies of the receipts on the collection plate.

    So that it cost money to organise conventions, assemblies, run a branch office is obvious. Also that the expenses must be covered. That means that, if we like things to continue as they are, every circuit of congregations has to contribute.

    the difference is.. we dont pass the plates, we dont approach individuals and ask if they donated yet, we dont need proof or copy of receipts. Its just a system of voluntary donations. If someone would like to give its possible. If another one dont want to give,.. no one will notice or know.. except the person itself and Jehovah.

    Again its only logical that in a cashless society stores, shops and organisations adapt to the new situation in order to get the funds that are needed

  • carla
    carla

    marking for Blondie's great quotes!

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    @ emeth: the stories that blondie came up with are not relevant. Some of them are 30 - 40 years old.

    .

    This is the same worn-out argument JWs use everytime WT does something it used to condemn. The point is not that these WT quotes are "30-40 years old", the point is that WT condemned every other religion who had ATM's and credit card services for donations, and used this as "proof" to prop up WT's view that these religions are greedy and false. Yet, here we are seeing WT doing the exact same thing !!! That's the issue.

    .

    Incidentally, Blondie's post is not "stories" as you claim... they are quotes from Watchtower literature. Why pretend WT never said it when it's right there in print?

    .

    This illustrates WT's hypocrisy (from Blondie's "not relevant" post):

    .

    Some religious organizations are going to new ends to acquire money. The Coronation of the Blessed Virgin Mary Catholic Church in Buffalo, New York, now accepts credit cards, not just cash donations. One finance committee member says: “A church can’t survive on 50-cent [cash] donations.” Credit-card donations are up to $30. Admission is now being charged visitors to London’s thirteenth-century Salisbury Cathedral. A London Observer article calls this “a last-ditch attempt to find a way of meeting the desperate need for funds.” ---Awake 12-8-73

    .

    The methodology is simple: people spend more money when they use a credit card compared to if they pay in cash. Do you think WT is unaware of this? WT's intent in printing news items like this is specifically to condemn other religions for what thjey do while WT builds itself up as superior.

  • Brainfloss
    Brainfloss

    how much is the max donation at the wtbs machines?

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    @MNIL the stories that blondie came up with are not relevant. Some of them are 30 - 40 years old.

    Good point EMETH, because we have all come to realize that rarely does anything that was stated in the WT Publications as absolute truth not get changed within 30 or 40 years (usually MUCH SOONER).

    Blondie........You're gonna have to toss out all those Old Lite Publications. NOTHING before 2000 should be quoted. (Just like the online Library.)

    [Please note tongue in cheek]

    Doc

  • emeth
    emeth

    @DOC if an article is talking about payments in Italian Lire's it would not be relevant too (since that currency does not exist anymore) , that is what i meant.

    40 years ago the world and average household did not pay with plastic. Now every household does.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Emeth said ," dozens of articles (in the watchtower & awake) about money, debt etc etc say over and over again that people must not spent what they dont have and not to buy things someone cant afford."

    GB says, " Honor Jehovah wuth your valuable things, oh, BTW..here is a huge list of reminders of how to do it. We are also going to remind you all the time that you need to give as part of your worship that God approves..no pressure."

    Emeth said," the stories that blondie came up with are not relevant. Some of them are 30 - 40 years old."

    Not relevant?? REALLY??

    From your own experience, have you not found various ones of these methods to be used by Protestant, Catholic and Jewish religions to meet their expenses? Note, too, that they all have a basic similarity. Rather than encourage spontaneous giving, they employ pressure, subtle or otherwise, and even appeal to selfishness, as through gambling.

    What about the Christian witnesses of Jehovah? Which of these methods do they use? Actually, they use none of them, not even the very common passing of a collection plate. How, then, do they gain the needed funds to pay for the expenses incurred in carrying on their religious activities on a local, national and international scale?

    The emphasis in all giving among the Witnesses is that it must be voluntary and spontaneous, from the heart. In fact, ever since the earliest days of the modern witnesses of Jehovah it has been their policy that never should there be any passing of collection plates or similar solicitations for money. It was their conviction that this is Jehovah’s work and that he would open the hearts of his people to make the necessary contributions so that necessary funds would always be available for the expansion of the preaching of the Gospel.

    At all of their meeting places there is a contribution box. Those who want to contribute to the support of the worship by the Witnesses may go to that box and give to the extent that they are able. There are no envelopes, no identification. So that those contributing might know the total amount contributed and what was done with the contributions received, once each month a statement is read to the congregation, giving those details. Additionally, many feel moved to send donations to the national and international headquarters for use in furthering the missionary work in other parts of the world. This, too, is voluntary.

    Which of these methods do you think most closely resembles those used by Jesus and his apostles, who instituted Christianity? Have you ever read in the Bible of Jesus or any of his disciples asking for the tithe, or passing a collection basket or plate or operating games of chance? No, when Jesus sent forth his twelve apostles he specifically commanded them: “You received free, give free.” (Matt. 10:8) But did not Jesus and his band of apostles have expenses that needed to be met? Indeed they did, and so we read that they had a “money box” for their funds. (John 12:6) Where did this money come from? Doubtless from voluntary contributions. Indicating the source of some of this, Luke’s account says that traveling from city to city with Jesus and his apostles were a number of women “who were ministering to them from their belongings.” (Luke 8:3) The apostle Paul later set a fine example as a true minister of Christ Jesus in that he worked with his own hands “so as not to put an expensive burden upon any one of you.” Likewise among Jehovah’s witnesses today there is no paid clergy class burdening the congregations.—1 Thess. 2:9; Acts 20:34.

    If you want to be like the 1st Century Christians, then use a money box. There is nothing wrong with machines, and the scriptures say nothing about using them. So to ban machines would be silly. Still, the spirit in which these things are done is important. The WTBTS does solicit funds. That is a fact. Is it wrong to ask for money if you need it? Not in my opinion. Still, it's the spirit in which it is done. All financial issues should be an open book. All JWs should have access to the WTBTS's records. Every dollar should be traced. The problem is that the WTBTS doesn't need any more money. They have plenty. Even worse, they hypocritically judge others for what they are now doing. It's called eating crow. To survive, the WTBTS Corporation is going to need to eat a lot of crow. Some BBQ sauce might help.

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