No its as pathetic as Nostradamus.
the bible and its prophecies
by Crazyguy 132 Replies latest watchtower bible
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ablebodiedman
The prophecy is mainly about the fate of “the holy city” and Daniel’s people (v. 24).
Interesting that it is a Messianic prophecy and yet mentions Daniels people.
Daniels people are Christians!
“As for the city and the sanctuary, the people of the coming prince will destroy them.”
The coming "prince" is Jesus Christ.
The people of the coming prince are Christians.
Christians will destroy the city and the sanctuary!
Daniel Chapter 8 helps us understand this:
Daniel 8:11-12
And all the way to the Prince of the army it put on great airs, and from him the constant [feature] was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 And an army itself was gradually given over, together with the constant [feature], because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success.
"established place of his sanctuary"
What sanctuary or temple did Jesus Christ establish?
The Christian Temple!
Hebrews 10:19-20
Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated [established sanctuary] for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh,
Hebrews Chapter 10 also helps us understand what the "constant [feature]" is:
Hebrews 10:12
But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God,
Yes, the "constant feature" is removed from the "holy place" and replaced by a "disgusting thing"!
Now do you understand what "cut off" means?
Daniel 9:26
"And after the sixty-two weeks Mes·si´ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself.
abe
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ablebodiedman
Christianity is ruined!
Now you can also understand what Daniel Chapter 2:44 really means:
Daniel 2:44
"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;
So after Christianity is destroyed then what is the next Kingdom that will not be ruined?
Revelation 21:27
But anything not sacred and anyone that carries on a disgusting thing and a lie will in no way enter into it; only those written in the Lamb’s scroll of life [will].
Understand Revelation 21:27 above and now listen again carefully to what Jesus Christ said and determine what the last kingdom really is:
Matthew 13:39-43
The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
Let him that has ears listen.
anyone listening?
abe
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ablebodiedman
Christians have destroyed Christianity!
abe
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Cold Steel
CrazyGuy: ...the Jews like other races took gods and stories from others and made them their own. Its also become clear that many of the books were written later then stated, like Daniel probably written about a hundred years before Christ and some of it maybe even after. But what I don't get is the prophecies. Many of the book were written after the fact but were written as if they had prophesied an event so why? Why would a scribe write something about something that had already taken place but write it as though it was going to in the future? Is there any evidence of other groups in the past doing the same thing?
I’m not sure that what you’re saying is true. Isaiah 53 was clearly written before the days of Jesus. The prophecy has been firmly rejected begins just a little before in chapter 52. Christians read chapter 53 and immediately see Jesus Christ; however, the Jews emphatically insist that it’s the nation of Israel, not the Messiah. But if one reads the verses just before chapter 53, the idea that that the “suffering servant” being a nation loses credibility: “Behold, my servant shall deal prudently; he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men.”
In a very old document that’s ancient, but not in the Christian or Jewish canon, the Father speaks to the Messiah and warns him of the suffering he would endure: “...their sins...will bend thee down under a yoke of iron and make thee like a calf whose eyes grow dim with suffering, and will choke thy spirit as with a yoke; because of the sins of these souls thy tongue will cleave to the roof of my mouth. Art thou willing to endure such things?” (Budge, Coptic Martyrdoms (London: British Museum, 1914), 482) According to John A. Tvedtnes, a professor of Ancient Scripture at BYU, “The account may be quite old, for it is also known from a Jewish text, Pesikta Rabbati 36:1, where we read that God “under his throne of glory put away His Messiah until the time of the generation in which he will appear.”
The prophet Zechariah noted that Israel would be restored to the lands of its inheritance in the last days (also prophesied by Isaiah), and this has now happened. These prophets have also prophesied that once the Jews have built their temple, that a powerful regional leader would reign for seven years and bring peace to the region. After three and a half years, this man (called “the beast” by some, or “the antichrist,” or “the man of sin,” the “Assyrian” or, as the Muslims call him, “the Mahdi”) will suddenly stop the sacrifices in the Jewish temple, and begin killing all those who will not worship him. At that point he will defile the temple, placing an image of himself in the holy of holies. For the latter part of his reign, the Jews (and presumably Christians and members of other faiths) who will not renounce their beliefs and follow him will be killed in great numbers. Then each side will receive assistance, the beast receiving it from Satan and the Jews receiving it from God. A “false prophet” will appear and perform wonderful miracles. But instead of seeking power for himself, he will publicly defer to the beast. The Jews will receive relief in the form of two prophets (Rev. 11), who will have all the powers of the ancient prophets Moses and Elijah. At the end of his reign, he will finally succeed in killing these two prophets, who tormented him and kept him from victory. But after three days of celebration, these prophets, who had been left dead in the streets as a form of humiliation, suddenly stand on their feet and, before the beast, will ascend into heaven.
All of these things have been prophesied, but many have not yet happened. But if one reads the prophecies carefully, one can see that the exact nations mentioned by the prophets are all Muslim nations, and that they all surround Israel.
My point is that who could have imagined the Jews reestablishing their nation in the face of fierce opposition? And even when they became a state, the very nations the prophets wrote about have sworn Israel’s destruction. Mohammed, himself, said that the day of resurrection would not come until the Muslims vanquished Jerusalem and killed the Jews. Specifically, he said, “The Hour [of Resurrection] will not come until you fight the Jews. The Jew will hide behind stones or trees. Then the stones or trees will call: ‘Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’” And recently, a Muslim speaker introducing the mufti, said, “Our war with the descendants of the apes and pigs is a war of religion and faith.”
So prophecy isn’t something that’s written in the wake of an event or events. The Old Testament prophets said that the Jews would be scattered to the four corners of the earth, and it happened. And they said the Jews would return to form their own nation, and they have. John, in Revelation 11, was given a rod and told to measure the temple. At the time, the temple had been burned to the ground by the Romans. And Malachi spoke of the Jews offering sacrifices in the last days. Ezekiel even provided the Jews with the directions on how to build it.
Many prophecies have been shown to predate events, and critics have striven to prove this for years. Even the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses have failed to recognize these events as being the work of God. Why? Because at the time they committed themselves to how the prophecies would be fulfilled, Israel had not become a state. The 1968 war had not taken place, nor did those who formed Adventist doctrine understand Christian and Muslim eschatology.
Even so prophecy is unfolding in the here and now. In my own view, no one could have foreseen it except they were of God. As for other traditions that seem older than those of the Bible, the age of documents and traditions cannot offer conclusive evidence that they preceded the records of Moses and other prophets. Until we can get the original source material, scholars can only speculate whose traditions came first. It's entirely possible that the Babylonians got their legends from the Hebrews. Accounts of the flood, for example, have been found in Greek mythology, Eastern traditions, throughout Asia and Africa, and even from the peoples of North and South America. Finding the oldest accounts are helpful for tracking the path of the traditions, but as of yet, they do not prove where they came from. Once Noah and his family left the ark, for example, accounts and traditions of that voyage were eventually had by all people.
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KateWild
This date corresponds to the calculations done by Hoehner and Feinberg.- Vidqun
I have never heard of these scholars but I will do some research on them to see how credible they're calculations are. Kate xx
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KateWild
I have been looking into both the scolars, the problem I have with the prophecy is the start date, in one of Harold Hoeners books he states
" Anyhow, there is much debate among scholars regarding the decree to which Daniel is referring. There does not seem to be an easy solution."
As far as I can see, the year 29 CE was when Christ got baptised and 33 CE was when Christ was put to death, bible scholars seem to work back from these dates to get the start date for the decree that Daniel is talking about. In my view anyone can number crunch. I simply am not convinced of this prophecy and that it was written 100's of years before Jesus was born.
Vidqun, I agree with your point that Bart Ehrman is a NT scholar, but he still understands the OT better than me from what I have seen him debate, I find him credible. As you quite rightly state, he believes Jesus existed so he is not an atheist fundamentalist in my mind. He calls himself an agnostic.
Kate xx
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never a jw
Assuming prophecies are real, why would a loving God send messages in such a convoluted manner that lends itself for multiple interpretations. Almighty as he is, he could prepare a clear message in plain whatever language is needed, lay it on visible spots, make it of indestructible, or at least long lasting material. After all, he created the universe, so the task of preparing clear messages for a bunch of egocentric beings in a tiny spot of the universe should be easy enough to do. May be he is not loving, or almighty, or not there altogether, or He is out there but not intervening in our affairs. I like the latter. Under this scheme human affairs and reality make sense.
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KateWild
Abe,
The youtube has not been compiled by a bible scholar. The video is not a credible source of information. Bart Ehrman is a credible bible scholar watch this promotional video instead. I don't believe the bible is from God and this lecture was very interesting. Let me know your thoughts Abe, I watched your video. Kate xx
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Comatose
Where is lars when you actually need him??? Sigh...