The Apostasy Within (page 3)

Vanderhoven7

Ask your friend to read Matthew 15:9

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Ask: Do you agree that it is wrong to teach and enforce man made commands as if they were God's commands? (that would constitute vain religion)

In terms of medical procedures:

1. Is the command to abstain from vaccinations a doctrine of men or God?

Are you aware that the WTS uniquely outlawed vaccinations during the 1920s and 30s as a violation of God's eternal covenant? (Speculation?) (vanity?) (interpretive abuse – going beyond what is written?) Do you agree that the organization endangered the life and health of its members by issuing this extra-biblical command? Do you believe those who complied by refusing smallpox vaccinations were wise to obey this command of men?

2. Is the command to abstain from organ transplants a doctrine of men or God?

Are you aware that the WTS uniquely outlawed organ transplants as an abhorrent cannibalistic practice during the 1960s and 70s? (Speculation of men?) (vanity?) (interpretive abuse? - going beyond what is written) Do you agree that the organization endangered the life and health of its members by this extra-biblical command? Do you believe those who complied by refusing kidney transplants or cornea transplants were wise to obey this command of men?)

3. Is the command to abstain from blood fractions a doctrine of men or God?

Are you aware that the WTS uniquely outlawed all blood-fractions including fractions 7 and 9 during the 60s? (Speculation?) (vanity?) (unwise?) (interpretive abuse? - going beyond what is written). Do you agree that the organization endangered the life and health of its members by issuing this extra-biblical command? Do you believe those who complied by refusing blood clotting fractions were wise to obey this command of men?

Were those who suffered loss as a result of obeying these unbiblical directives foolish or not?

4. Is the command to abstain from blood plasma a doctrine of men or God?

How did the WTS determine that transfusion of blood plasma was unacceptable, when every one of its componants have been declared acceptable?

P.S. Have documentation ready for support

BluesBrother

If you have not seen him for decades, lets hope that he is still as open minded and free thinking as he used to be.....

wasblind

" scince Jehovah's Witnesses are not prophets , according to thier own words . They are not inspired and need to make corrections "___Make Lemonade

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As we all have come to know. Ain't no inspiration in this so -called religion

but they do claim to meet all the qualifications of a " True prohet "

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" If any individual or organizations claim to represent God but decline to use God's personal name, and make it a practice to express thier own opinions on matters, are they measuring up to this important qualification of a true prophet ?_____Reasoning book page 133

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Ultimate Axiom

Vanderhoven7 - I like the application of Matt 15:9 to the examples you have given, that is definitely worth more analysis.

BluesBrother - you know I think he is, which is why I will meet with him. If truth be told I believe I am far more interested in hearing his views on what I have been collecting for him, than he is on hearing mine.

wasblind - "since Jehovah's Witnesses are not prophets , according to their own words" I disagree with you and Make Lemonade here. It might be a 42 year old quote, but in the Watchtower, April 1, 1972, page 197, they said, “does Jehovah have a prophet to ... declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. … This ‘prophet’ was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses.” I am not aware that they have rescinded this position, but I'm happy to be proved wrong if someone can supply more up to date 'light'.

ablebodiedman

It is my conviction that the biggest internal apostacy was the re-inventing of Jesus Christs baptimal commandment to include a vow to themselves.

That is what they mean by; "God's Spirit Directed Organization" isn't it ....................... themselves and a number of other brothers?

jv chap. 9 p. 109 Jehovah’s Word Keeps Moving Speedily (1976-1992)

On December 4, 1975, the Governing Body had unanimously approved one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Starting January 1, 1976, all the activities of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the earth had been brought under the supervision of six administrative committees of the Governing Body. In harmony with that arrangement, on February 1, 1976, changes had been put into effect in all branch offices of the Society around the earth. No longer was each branch supervised by one branch overseer, but three or more mature men served as a Branch Committee, with one member serving as the permanent coordinator. After the committees had been operating for some months, the Governing Body observed: "It has proved beneficial to have a number of brothers taking counsel together to consider the interests of the Kingdom work.

Make Lemonade

Ultimate Axiom. Take a careful look at the 4/1/72 pg 197 ariticle you quoted. What is going on with the word prophet. Sometimes it is Prophet. Sometimes it is "Prophet". When refering to Ezekiel it is Prophet without quotes. When refering to modern day witnesses it is "Prophet". WHY?

Please read the g93 3/22 Why So Many False Alarms? pg. 4

Footnote: Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances however, did they presume to originate predictions "in the name of Jehovah." Never did they say, "These are the words of Jehovah." The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah's Witnesses, has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy." (January 1883, pg. 425) "Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible." (December 15, 1896, pg 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah's spirit "does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes." (May 15, 1950, pg 263) "The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)" February 15, 1981, page 19.

If you search this site you will find abundant quotes from the WT. that support two positions at the same time. We are God's channel of communication, but we are not inspired prophets.

One book on my list to read is by Don Cameron. Many have quoted him and I believe he deals thoroughly with this subject.

JWdaughter

You got a lot of good suggestions. Mine would be to keep all anger and bitterness out of it. Sadness at what (may have) resulted because of DF'ing/shunning seems ok, but just leave off the vitriolic statements. That will convince him you are an 'evil' apostate instead of someone who made a reasoned, reasonable decision.

wasblind

Ultimate Axiom, you miss my point. I agree

Jehovah's Witnesses have followed false prophets

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On page 133 in the Reasoning book

they describe what Jehovah's Witnesses do as the mark of a True Prophet ( Without quotations )

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" Evidently," They are tellin' lies as representatives of Jehovah

Hananiah played that same game

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wasblind

Hello Make Lemonade

everything the WTS qouted can be proved wrong

" Jehovah's Witnesses have suggested dates that turned out to be wrong "

Jehovah's Witnesses did not suggest but state dates as a fact :

" The year 1914 is marked by Bible prophecy. For details regarding the chronology, see pages 95-97 under the main heading "Dates" . The correctness of the date is shown by the fact that world conditions foretold to mark this time period have come to pass scince 1914 exactly as foretold. "____Reasoning book page 239

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" Never in these instances however , did they presume to originate predictions " in the name of Jehovah ", never did they say " these are the words of Jehovah "

Yes they did. they claim the lies taught come straight from Jehovah

" Thus what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah " ___Sept 15, 2010 WT para. 8 page 13

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" Jehovah's spirit does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's Witnesses are inspired "

That ain't what they wrote in the Reasoning book

" If someone says____

'Do you have the holy spirit ?

You might reply : ' Yes, and that is why I have come to your door today '

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Silly Dubs, you can't separate inspiration from Holy spirit

They know if they out right claim inspiration on top of failed predictions

that is a nail in thier coffin

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And that was a lie they told in they reasoning book

The only reason they come to your door

is to make their qouta on thier field service reports

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Make Lemonade

wasblind: . Well said

The Apostasy Within

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