Thank you Make Lemonade
The Apostasy Within
by Ultimate Axiom 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cha ching
Good research you two! (Make Lemonade, Was Blind)
Maybe we should just print out those quotes and carry them around...
Never mind..... The WT would just use one of their brain-fry mind tricks...
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villagegirl
Ultimate Ax - CORE issues - forget two generations - thats a symptom of
the real problem - the real issue is the concept of
special people being "anointed" this is False doctrine #1
Jesus as an example; was baptized with all others being baptized, in the Bible the
term anointing was used to describe some ceremony Exodus 40:13 Aron is anointed to
serve as a High Priest. Jesus Christ is now our High Priest
By contrast, Christians are ALL anointed
according to the Bible. 2 Cor:1:21 21 "Now it is God who makes
both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,"
This was described in Acts 2:17 "“‘And in the last days it shall be,
God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men
shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;"
And you notice - it includes women.
The WT has created "classes" the anointed "class"
the heavenly "class" the earthly "class"
The claim the Governing Body makes is
they are "special" they have a "spiritual baptism
by holy spirit" that you do not have - that is clearly contrary to scripture;
Ephesians 4:5....4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you
were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.…
The "faithful and discreet slave" class is not a class at all, its aparable
that shows the difference between faithful servants and faithless ones,
and in that parable there was not "one guy or eight guys on top",
there were two servants who were approved.
So the claim the FDS makes is ridiculous, because
who is the other faithful and discreet slave supposed to be ?
Claiming to be the "sole channel of communication" between man and God
is "Standing in the Holy Place" since only Jesus is the mediator.
1Tim 2:5 ONE mediator between man and God and that is Jesus Christ.
It all rests on this rotten foundation, the rest is icing trying to distract
you from the real core blasphemy, and apostasy of the claims of the
Governing Body and their self aggrandizing claims at "sole channel"
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kaik
The fear of apostasy within was probably behind the ban of bible studies in the privacy of the homes with a small group of elders at the end of 1980's. WT was probably afraid that JW will find out something that does not match with official teaching from Brooklyn.
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wizzstick
607 is the one I would discuss.
Highlight the physical evidence and how it shows clearly thr reign of kings, and how there is no missing 20 years.
Kill that and so much collapses.
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besty
ask him to select any page he likes from jwfacts.com and discuss why he disagrees with the conclusion reached. (if he does)
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ablebodiedman
but they do claim to meet all the qualifications of a " True prophet "
They claim much more than that!
w59 5/1 p. 269 Attain Completeness in the New World Society
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To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the organization that he is personally directing. Doing what the organization says is to do what he says. Resisting the organization is to resist him.
So what you could do to make him think is quote the above Watchtower Magazine statement and then read this commandment from Jesus Christ:
Luke 21:8
He said: "Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them.
A Christian is a person who obeys Jesus Christ!
abe
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tim hooper
The teaching that springs to mind for me is the reinstatement process. This is close to my heart and helped me learn TTATT. This unscriptural teaching causes much harm, pain and even suicide to many JWs that have beed DF'd.
The recommendations in the elders "Flock book" are a direct contradiction of what Jesus taught at Luke 15: 11-24 about the Prodigal Son.
Kate xx
Kate is 100% correct. The prodigal son was welcomed home immediately. The WT's references are twisted and garbled just to suit their own purposes. Just look at this from the 1963 WT:
Watchtower 8-1-63:
>>>"If these necessary evidences of sorrow and change are present, then his reinstatement could be considered by the congregation committee after sufficient time had elapsed, which in most cases IS AT LEAST A YEAR."<<<A year!!!
Did the prodigal son have to wait for a year before his father welcomed him home???
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wasblind
Besty
Jehovah' Witnesses should be so " Happyfied "
at Jehovah's provision of the Tablet/Notebook thingy
Where JWFACTS.COM is right at thier fingertips
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Ultimate Axiom
Make Lemonade – I take your point and accept that JWs have never claimed to be inspired, infallible prophets in the same sense as they regard the Biblical prophets, but they do claim to be “true messengers of Jehovah, who makes the messages He delivers through them come true” (Watchtower, May 1, 1977, page 8). And they have also said, “It is vital that we … respond to the directions of the ‘slave’ as we would to the voice of God” (Watchtower, June 15, 1957, page 371). Thus for all practical purposes, a JW must treat the FDS as if it were an inspired prophet – to argue otherwise is purely semantics, what’s the difference between a ‘true messenger’ and a ‘prophet’? And although (as you say) we can find quotes to support opposing positions on this, a JW can only take one position in practice.
wasblind – sorry, I see your point now. I agree with all you have said except one thing: Jehovah’s Witnesses did NOT suggest any dates and never have, it was the faithful and discrete slave that did. Whenever the Watchtower makes some pusillanimous admission that they got it wrong it always passes the blame onto JWs as a whole. JWs only accepted what the FDS said, the FDS did all the speculating, suggesting, prophesying etc, but they are too spineless to say ‘we got it wrong’, because that would damage their claim as being a ‘true messenger’, so they pass the blame onto JWs as a whole. There are dozens of examples of this, and we should not let them get away with it.
villagegirl – thanks for your post, but to me the real issue is, can we undermine the idea that the FDS is God’s true messenger. And if we start from the JWs position that it is, and that we must therefore follow what the FDS says (as if it were the word of God), then we reach a self-destroying spiral when we follow their words at the start of this thread ‘when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them” I don’t think we will ever convince a JW that their interpretation of a scripture is wrong, so no point batting scriptures back and forth, finding something that has no basis in scripture at all suits my purpose better, they have no verses to quote is such a situation.
ablebodiedman – I like that one.