How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why?? (page 8)

Vanderhoven7

D: True..but then again, I don't know two believers who agree on everything....unless they are in a cult.

designs

that seems to be the case. The various Councils and Creeds tried to unify Christians around certain teachings but the East and West have very different approaches and understandings to this day.

We have only a few choices....Most places of worship always hold doctrines over christians heads to make them behave...In most churches, if you are good you go to heaven, if you are not....you go to hell....In the hall, they hold disfellowshipping over the friends heads, if you don't repent (the way they think you should) you will be destroyed (never to be heard of again). Either way, man always has to hold stuff over human's heads to make them obey.

So, the choice is Heaven, Hell, Disfellowshipping/Shunning (this is done while you are still alive, now that's painful) or Destruction. No matter how you look at it....it ain't pretty.

Legacy

Laika

In most churches, if you are good you go to heaven, if you are not....you go to hell....

Legacy, you probably shouldn't pay too much attention to what the Watchtower tells you those churches teach.

jam

So folks, can we come to the conclusion, the doctrine of Hellfire

is not a Bible teaching??? All agree???

Watkins

I'm on board with your conclusion, jam. The idea of people literally burning forever is incompatible with real love, imho.

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/

http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/hellcomp.htm

~Watkins

Vanderhoven7

Here is the intro to my book on the subject.

ETERNAL TORMENT: IMAGE AND REALITY

Rick Vanderhoven

INTRODUCTION

The traditional doctrine of “hell” is the view endorsed by most evangelical churches. According to this view, hell is a literal place where the immortal souls of unregenerate human beings experience horrendous levels of pain and anguish. And the extreme distress and suffering in hell is eternal in the sense that it will never end.

This view of hell, which clearly defines the nature of final punishment as eternal torment, is unmistakably rooted in Judeo-Christian tradition. Although there was no single Jewish doctrine of hell, history establishes that the idea of everlasting conscious punishment of the wicked was affirmed in some rabbinical circles as early as the intertestamental period. This is clearly documented in Judith, one of the books of the Apocrypha (hidden books) written about 150 BC.

“Woe to the nations that rise up against my race;

The Lord Almighty will take vengeance of them

in the day of judgment,

To put fire and worms in their flesh;

And they shall weep and feel their pain forever.” Jth. 16:17

Also in the Pseudepigrapha (literally “false writings”), consisting of 77 books thought to have been written between 200 BC. and 100 AD., the theme of ongoing conscious torment is depicted as at least one of the retributive scenarios for the wicked. In the second book of Enoch for example, a rather terrifying place is described, where;

murky fire constantly flameth aloft, and a fiery river

(comes) forth, and the whole place is everywhere fire,

and everywhere frost and ice, thirst and shivering,

while the bonds are very cruel, and the angels fearful

and merciless, bearing angry weapons, merciless

torture. 2 En. 40:12

Early post apostolic history also witnesses to the continuity of the doctrine of eternal torment within both Jewish and Christian traditions. Jewish literature during this period often graphically detailed the retributive misery of the damned. For example, licentious men are spoken of as hanging by their genitals, woman who suckled their young in public, as hanging by their breasts, and those who talked during synagogue prayers, as having their mouths filled with hot coals. Christian literature of the period, is strikingly similar in nature. The New Testament Apocrypha for example, including books such as, “The Apocalypse of Peter”, “The Acts of Thomas” and “The Apocalypse of Paul”, speak of blasphemers hanging by their tongues, women who had had abortions, as sitting neck deep in excrement, and those who turned their backs on God as being slowly baked in fire.

Controversy today still surrounds the position held by second century church Fathers such as Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Justin Martyr and Tertian . But whether or not differences of opinion existed regarding the fate of the wicked no internal dispute on the subject is evident from the literature of the day . What is clear however, is that when commenting on final punishment, the Apostolic Fathers tended to limit themselves to the language and images found in scripture, rather than borrow from other non canonical Jewish and Christian sources.

Although the second, third and fourth centuries of the common era were characterized by an absence of uniformity regarding the ultimate fate of the wicked, it is probable that eternal conscious punishment had become the predominant view within Christendom before the turn of the third century. And from that point on, the doctrine of eternal torment continued in uninterrupted prominence right up through the Middle Ages to the present date.

In recent years however, despite overwhelming consensus among evangelicals since the Reformation, a number of respected theologians within the evangelical camp have begun to challenge the traditional view. Scholars of the stature of Clark H. Pinnock and John R. W. Stott have actually gone on record as saying that such doctrines as “immortality of the soul” and “eternal conscious punishment” simply are not biblical.

The intent of this study: Since the critical factor for evangelicals has always been “what the Bible says”, and not religious tradition, majority opinion, or personal sentiment, the object of the present study will be to critically evaluate the scriptural case for the traditionalist position. To this end, a somewhat exhaustive array of Old and New Testament passages on the subject of hell will systematically be examined to determine whether or not the Bible clearly teaches that the nature of final punishment is ETERNAL TORMENT.

jam

What about this, Hell had been taught in greek philosophy

long before the time of Jesus, with Plato(427-347 B.C) as

the important leader in this thinking. "The origin of Hell-fire"

in Christian Teaching.

Vanderhoven7

Here is the closing challenge in this work

.

ETERNAL TORMENT - IMAGE & REALITY

.

Reader Reaction to This Study

.

You have finished reading ETI&R which concludes that there is no clear scriptural support for the TRADITIONAL VIEW OF HELL. Perhaps you do not concur with the author's findings and would argue that there is clear scriptural support for this view. This is your opportunity to respond to this study with evidence you think that the author has misinterpreted or may not have considered. You can reach the Rick Vanderhoven at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/279147/4/How-many-here-believers-believe-in-the-Hell-fire-doctrine-and-why

.

THE TRADITIONAL VIEW OF HELL ADVANCES THE FOLLOWING:

.

PREMISE 1. DURING THE INTERMEDIATE STATE the souls of the

unrighteous deceased exist in a condition of unbearable torment

in hell (Sheol/Hades).

PREMISE 2. AFTER THE FINAL JUDGEMENT the souls of unregenerate

human beingswill be sustained in a condition of unbearable torment

in hell (Gehenna/lake of fire) for all eternity.

.

PLEASE OFFER SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR THE TRADITIONAL VIEW OF HELL BY ANSWERING THE FOLLOWING TWO QUESTIONS:

.

I. What OT evidence might have convinced Christ's contemporaries (i.e. the Pharisees) of the Traditional view of hell? (From Gen. - Mal.)

OT evidence that supports Premise 1.

OT evidence that supports Premise 2.

.

II. What NT evidence should convince contemporary Christians of the

Traditional view of hell? (From Matt. - Rev.)

.

NT evidence that supports Premise 1.

NT evidence that supports Premise 2.

jam

Good job Vanderhoven7....

How many here (believers) believe in the Hell fire doctrine and why??

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