Well i think i the case is one or lost on jury selection, so if if the jury was a mix of Jehovers Witnesses,Mormons, Born Agains ect i would concede no contest.
So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?
by androb31 56 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Bugbear
Here are a few questions I would like to put on that trial.
Mr. God, are you the creator and the father of all living humans and animals?
Is it true that you abandoned your creation about 6000 thousand years ago and leaved it to your worst enemy?
Is it true that you found the earth so full of sin and evilness that you had to wash away all human and drown several millions of animals, except for 8 people and some 100 of animals, about 4300 years ago?
Did you let your angels kill some 185000 enemy soldiers in one night 3000 thousand yours ago?
Did you send your one borne son to this earth to become killed and resurrected, so that anyone who believed this could be saved?
Did you give Abraham the impression, that he had to kill and sacrifice his son to become in a god standard before you?
Is it your intention to kill all humans who don’t believe in you within short, in Armageddon?
Do you think that a father can be good and loving if he abandon his children, and leave them alone for more then 6000 years? And then when coming back kill, all those who doesn’t think that the father exist?
Bugbear
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notjustyet
Here is a movie about jus that from the Jews in WW2 prison camps.
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androb31
Cofty:
:Yes you're right, that is the standard response.
1 - If god wanted to stop a wicked nation from practising wicked things like child sacrifice, how does it make sense to specifically murder all the children?
2 - Yes a deity would have the right to take life away on a whim. But, the question is how god's actions compare with the claim that he is love.
My answers:
1. Personally, I'm stumped. These are both head scratchers lol.
As a believer I may have answered it something along these lines: He was teaching his people Israel by showing them how they would end up if they engaged in similar behaviours and how they would be dealt with by him if so.
2. Again, I'm stumped.
Similarly I may have answered this in the past like: We just don't see everything the way god does, his ways are not our ways. We just have to trust him even when we don't understand why he does what he does.
Ignoranceisbliss:
My question would be Why didn't you make it obvious that you exist? If there is a creator than he has every right to demand worship. But it's up to hiM to make his presence known. You can't expect people to know that your there.
Good point. Just one peice of irrefutable evidence is all I would personally need.
I know the pat biblical answer: "No man may see God and yet live", "You shall not test the lord your God" etc.......
That's just begs more questions though when I think about it. If this is what God expects us to abide by, then why did he give us rational thinking minds geared towards curiosity, a desire to search for knowlege and so forth. It seems like this type of question really makes god angry.
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KateWild
If I was going to prosecute God, I would ask him how prayer and suffering relate to one another and highlight the fact that those suffering do not have their prayers to end suffering answered. This is the area in which I lost my faith in a benevolent God. I don't believe he cares about anyone, or wants to relieve their suffering. I don't think he rewards or punishes anyone.
I would also ask him about the Bible and how it is deficient in so many area's that it can't be written by one itelligent God. I would, like you highlight contradictions and ask him to explain them.
Kate xx
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androb31
OTWO:
Lesser courts have ruled against pet-owners for doing far less harm than Mr. God has done for humans.
Ouch!! I never thought of it that way. I gotta think on that for awhile.
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androb31
newhopeandhappiness:
Well i think i the case is one or lost on jury selection, so if if the jury was a mix of Jehovers Witnesses,Mormons, Born Agains ect i would concede no contest.
LOL!!
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androb31
Ignoranceisbliss:
My question would be Why didn't you make it obvious that you exist? If there is a creator than he has every right to demand worship. But it's up to hiM to make his presence known. You can't expect people to know that your there.
I wanna take this a bit further actually.
One of the responses to this I've heard and even used myself is that "god cannot bear the presence of sin" therefore he does not reveal or show himself out of kindness to us.
So that being the case, the question I've really struggled with lately is this: Why did god subject the first 2 humans he created to guaranteed failure knowing they would fail his test and subject all who follow to sin, which god cannot bear?
This scripture seems to say exactly that:
Romans 8:20
NIV: For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
NLT: Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope,
NET: For the creation was subjected to futility--not willingly but because of God who subjected it--in hope
To me, that would be the equivalent of a parent purposely subjecting their own children to an unwinnable situation just to teach them a lesson, that really never needed to be taught.
I imagine it like this:
Say a parent drops their innocent, basically ignorant young child in the middle of a candy store. They spend ample time pointing out how delicious all the candy is, but make a point to extol the superiority, deliciousness, desirability of the best candy that sits smack dab in the middle of the store, surrounded by lights and fanfare. Threaten the child w/ something they have no concept of if they dare eat of the special candy in the middle of the store. The child is then subsequently left there alone with a known scandalous trickster, con artist, murdering liar who is totally bent on causing mayhem and suffering to the child. They basically have to fend for themselves and make the right choice, even though you already know they will not make the wise choice.
As punishment they then evict the young child from their safe home into a dangerous (especially for a child) world and hide from them from that day forward. By extension, any future offspring of the child, assuming they make it that far of course, will be subjected to toil, misery and grief for simply happening to be the offspring of the child who was tricked by a vastly superior, cunning enemy you knew was lurking in the candy store in the first place.
To add a further burden, it will be required for the offspring of the cursed child, who never met the parent in the first place to spend their life in service to the absentee, invisible so called parent who won't be bothered to even make an appearance, extolling their wonderful virtues and kindness for even letting them live and take place in the chess match (which they are pawns in) between the two vastly superior, much older and wiser grown ups. I mean afterall, they are the offspring of the evil, sinful special candy eater lol. All this under the threat of worse, even endless suffering, than they've already been subjected to for not blindly taking up the cause. In a nutshell.
SHEESH!!
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DATA-DOG
Why didn't God use his all powerful, all knowing abilities to just punish the angels who became horny and had impure thoughts? If GOD knows enough to instantly kill me in the JW-future petting zoo for "sinning" after I am perfect, why couldn't he percieve the need to destroy the horny angels? They could have simply ceased to exist, painlessly. The remaining angels could have had their minds wiped of the event, so that mourning nor outcry would be anymore, and not called to mind!
I guess it was better to let the horny angels mate and produce murderous hybrids that raped all whom they chose, and then kill off ALL life outside the Ark, instead of just the bad guys....
DD
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objectivetruth
androb - I'm not the greatest with articulating my thoughts, but I'll try.
When Yahweh asked Abraham, to sacrifice Isaac, What did Abraham place bis faith in? Did he say to himself, "well I know that the Bible says that God is Love" so I'll put faith in God, because the Bible, says I should"?
No he definetely did not.l he considerd Yahweh's track record.. He considered whether it not Yahweh stuck to his word when he spoke it.
2 Hypothetical Questions he may have asked himself..
1. "When Yahweh, told my Forefather Noah, that he was bringing a deluge upon the Earth, to destroy all but 8 did he do it?
2. "When Yahweh, promised. Sarah and me a son, despite our old age. Did he fulfill his promise?"
The answer to both of these questions would be Yes.. There would have been 100's of other examples that Abraham could have mentally referenced as well.
Now.. Let's consider another hypothetical situation..
Let's say Yahweh had fulfilled 99 out of 100 Promises that he had made pre Abraham.. And the 1 promise that he did not fulfill, was justified because it would have meant death of a lot of Innocent people.
Could Abraham have COMPLETE trust in Yahweh? No, he could not he could only have 99% faith.
Hebrews 6:18 "So God has given both his promise and his oath. These two things are unchangeable because it is impossible for God to lie. Therefore, we who have fled to him for refuge can have great confidence as we hold to the hope that lies before us."
The impossibility of Yahweh telling a Lie is Absolute..
So when he tells Yahweh tells Adam
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life" Genesis 3:17
He cannot go back on his word. Yahweh withdrew his presence from Mankind, once they transgressed, and this has lead to pain,Suffering,evil and all types of unspeakable atrocities. If he were to exclude some from this pain, he would be a liar, and if he were to maneuver the situation so that there was not SO MUCH pain, this would be tampering with Free Will.
The fact is that Yahweh, allows everything that happens to Humans, because he Has to. If he did not allow it, he would be A Liar, and the Universe would cease to exist..
Another simpler example can be seen in Math.
Math like Yahweh never lies and cannot lie., the reason for this is That God is Math and Math is God. They are the same, in their absolute truthful nature.
Consider this hypothetical situation..
99 times out of 100 2+2 = 4 / However 1 in 100 times 2+2 = 8 - if this were to happen, the Universe would literally self destruct and all of humanity would instantly Die.
A child with polio Lieng in the Dirt in South Africa, is a Disgusting thing.. But Humans only live 70-80 years.. 80 years of torment, pain and suffering is better than every living being in the universe ceasing to exist.. Do you agree?