So...Assuming God exists, if he were on trial and you were the prosecutor, how would you present your case?

by androb31 56 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  objectivetruth

  androb -

  If there are 100 people that Endure Suffering during their life times, does the Suffering of those 100 increase the suffering of each individual by 100% ?

  It does not, One Person can only feel Pain with in their own Mind and Body.

  With this in mind, view the History of the world with the Perspective of One Person, as opposed to many Billions.

  One Person is Born and he lives 80 Years, with Constant Sorrow , Pain & Suffering.. No doubt those 80 years are TOUGH. He dies.

  This One Person is then Resurrected, to an earth that is not Controlled by Evil..

  This Person proceeds to live 1,000 years with Joy, Delight & Love..

  At the End of the 1,000 Years God asks him, Do you wish to Live Forever?

  What do you think this one person would decide? Do you think the 80 years that he suffered were so bad, that he cannot Enjoy Everlasting Life with no Pain or Suffering?

  Or do you think, for eternity this person will Remember the 80 Years that he did not have God's support, and because of this appreciate God's support that much more?

  If there is no Sad there is no Happy, if there is no Hate there is No Love, if there is no Hot there is no cold.

  the only way we can appreciate what we have, is by having knowledge of what it's like not to have.
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  androb31

  Objectivetruth:

  2 Hypothetical Questions he may have asked himself..

  1. "When Yahweh, told my Forefather Noah, that he was bringing a deluge upon the Earth, to destroy all but 8 did he do it?

  2. "When Yahweh, promised. Sarah and me a son, despite our old age. Did he fulfill his promise?"

  The answer to both of these questions would be Yes.. There would have been 100's of other examples that Abraham could have mentally referenced as well.

  Now.. Let's consider another hypothetical situation..

  Let's say Yahweh had fulfilled 99 out of 100 Promises that he had made pre Abraham.. And the 1 promise that he did not fulfill, was justified because it would have meant death of a lot of Innocent people.

  Could Abraham have COMPLETE trust in Yahweh? No, he could not he could only have 99% faith.

  If I understand you correctly, you are saying God has made promises to certain of his servants that he absolutely had to fulfill in order to keep his word? Regardless of the collateral damage that would have to be inflicted?

  Is god not all mighty and all knowing? Could he not make promises that would allow him to avoid mowing down countless lives in the process of keeping them?

  A child with polio Lieng in the Dirt in South Africa, is a Disgusting thing.. But Humans only live 70-80 years.. 80 years of torment, pain and suffering is better than every living being in the universe ceasing to exist.. Do you agree?

  Again, pretty much the same type of question as above. Did humans put god in the position where his hands were tied and the choice was either mass slaughter or the universe ceasing to exist? Did he not know how things would go before he set them in motion?

  I'm not 100% convinced either for or against the existance of god at this point and I'm not asking rhetorically or sarcastically but would like to understand how you would explain this
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  objectivetruth

  - If I understand you correctly, you are saying God has made promises to certain of his servants that he absolutely had to fulfill in order to keep his word?Regardless of the collateral damage that would have to be inflicted?

  Answer : There was really one Warning / Promise that he gave that has effected all of Humanity.. This was the Warning that said "eat this fruit (Whatever literal or symbolic meaning the fruit may have) and you and your offspring will live a life of pain and suffering."

  It isn't really collateral damage. Because we are Adams Children, we are cursed just like He was. There is a Unbreakable law involved here, and this law is Genetics. Children inherent their parents Traits. In this case the Trait that we have Inherited is a Fleshly body that is not reconciled to Yahweh.

  Yahweh is all Mighty & all Knowing.. But Free Will is Mighty as well.. The only way that Humans, can become what they're intended to become is with the Gift of Free Will.

  If everything was laid out for us and Fate Existed.. How could it be said that we have Free Will?

  Please also see my last post.. All over creation you see Duality and Opposites, I believe that the Reason for this is, that there is a Natural Law within us that only allows us to appreciate something, if we understand the opposite of that thing.

  - Did humans put god in the position where his hands were tied and the choice was either mass slaughter or the universe ceasing to exist? Did he not know how things would go before he set them in motion?

  The answer is Yes & No..

  No To the Universe ceasing to Exist, as this is not an option and will never be an option.. Because it is impossible for god to lie.

  Yes to the fact that Humans put themselves in this position, if our Father, did not sin, there would have been another method used to teach us Good vs Evil. I don't know if God knew that Adam & Eve would sin.. I do know however that it was not foreordained that they would sin.
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  prologos

  these are amazing arguments you-all presented.

  There is the former Los Angeles PROSECUTOR that tackled that question,--and other related ones-- in his book 'Divinity of Doubt" Vincent Bugliosi, highly recommended.
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  androb31

  Objectivetruth:

  Or really anyone......

  Can you address these contradictions mainly in gods character:

  EX 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me

  DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

  ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

  Does god punish children for their fathers sins? or doesn't he?

  ***********************

  GEN 22:1 "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."

  LUKE 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

  JAMES 1:13"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

  Can god be tempted? If not, why the prohibition against tempting him? Does god tempt or test us? or doesn't he?

  ***********************

  EX 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

  1 COR. 13:4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud

  1 JOHN 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

  Is god jealous? Is god love? Is love jealous? How can god be love if love is not jealous if he is self admittedly jealous?

  I'll stop there.
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  objectivetruth

  Some People on this Thread are complaining that God kills innocent Children & 1'000s of people at a time.. Others complain that God allows suffering to exist.. I have to ask, which is it?

  When God Kills someone, doesn't that end their Suffering? In reality shouldn't we all wish that God would Kill us?

  Paul wished for Death - Philippians 1:21-23 "21For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better."

  Solomon Understood the Gift of Death in this life - Exclesiastes 7:2 "2It is better to go to the house of mourning than to go to the house of feasting, for this is the end of all mankind, and the living will lay it to heart.

  When God destroys someone, he is not Annhilating them, rather he is putting Them to sleep until the Last Day when they will ALL rise.

  So to the question, of why God would kill Children, after he rebuked their parents for Child Sacrifice.. I say that those children were blessed to be taken by Yahweh.. It's much better to be killed by God than to be passed through a fire and Sacrificed to Satan, at the hands of your own Parents.. Perhaps he knew that the parents would continue to Sacrifice regardless of his warning?

  An example of Yahweh mercifully taking one of his servants, to save him from suffering is seen in Enoch

  Genesis 5:23 " 23So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him."

  Yahweh know his plan for all if his children, and for this reason when he takes someone/kills them , it is not as we view it.

  Something to consider...

  Why really did God Destroy everyone earth except for 8?

  The simple answer is this.. He destroyed them so that Satan could not interfere with the Promised Seed.

  If Fallen Angels, had conti Jed used to teach all of the men secrets that they were not supposed to know, and Nephilim would have kept canabilizing Humans.. How would it have been possible for the Promised Seed to arrive as it was Prophesied in Genesis 3:15? It could not have, and for this reason the Flood Was a loving provision that Eventually will be a factor that Saves all Humanity, including those that it Destroyed.
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  objectivetruth

  androb - thanks for the follow up questions, I didn't address your previous question yet, regarding specific questions..these are for sure valid and good questions.. Please allow me the afternoon, to think about these questions research them and pray on them.. I'll do my best to answer each one..

  Keep up your questioning, but don't Lose Hope my Brother!

  If you have ceased to pray, please consider resuming prayer.. But keep in mind, prayers that are not pure, or that are accusitory towards Yahweh are not answered.. Yahweh doesn't answer prayers that are not asked without faith.. So if you don't have faith, you can Pray for Faith.. This is the first step.. If you don't have faith that Yahweh will give you Faith still Pray.. His desire for you to come to know him is stronger then his not answering Prayers that lack faith.

  if you'd like to discuss the nature of prayer, and how prayers are answered, we can go over that in the future as well.
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  androb31

  Objectivetruth:

  Sounds good. I look forward to your answers.

  If you have ceased to pray, please consider resuming prayer.. But keep in mind, prayers that are not pure, or that are accusitory towards Yahweh are not answered.. Yahweh doesn't answer prayers that are not asked without faith.. So if you don't have faith, you can Pray for Faith.. This is the first step.. If you don't have faith that Yahweh will give you Faith still Pray.. His desire for you to come to know him is stronger then his not answering Prayers that lack faith.

  One more question to throw in there:

  If what you say above is the case regarding prayer then god doesn't really seem to want a person to approach him honestly with how they feel (angry, accusitory, hurt, lacking faith etc...). He would seem to only want people to approach him according to a prescribed method to avoid hurting gods feelings or so he can feel good about himself, that many will not be able to do since they are angry, accusitory, hurt, lacking faith.

  Is god really that petty?
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  androb31

  Prologos:

  There is the former Los Angeles PROSECUTOR that tackled that question,--and other related ones-- in his book 'Divinity of Doubt" Vincent Bugliosi, highly recommended.

  I think I might just have to look into obtaining a copy. Thanks.
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  cofty

  I say that those children were blessed to be taken by Yahweh..

  Disgusting!