org is dying

by lambsbottom 101 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  While WT has been able to survive 1914, 1925, 1975, and 1995, I don't think they have the level of brains today that they did in years past. And as already stated, the Internet wasn't around back then. It takes some kind of charisma to keep a cult going. Now that they're getting rid of the DOs, that leaves the COs to do the face-to-face rallying of the troups. I don't know that many can do it effectively.

  In the past, JWs were flooded with litteratrash to read. Now that's down to a trickle, particularly when you eliminate all the "old light" that ought not be read anymore. They used to circulate recorded talks. That's discouraged now. Sure, there are the official audio recordings and videos now, but most of the time it seems that the videos get watched once (twice if they prepare for the SM that discusses it). Some listen to the audio recordings, but most don't. As we know, the number and length of meetings have decreased in recent decades. Cults need to keep a tight rein. Not sure that WT is doing this.

  One of the things that has always existed, but seems to have increased, IMHO, is that JWs have such friction within the ranks. I've been in congregations where the mudslinging and divisions in the congregation were unbelievable. Despite the fact that "Local Needs" were constantly about fixing gossip and infighting, the material coming from WT was sowing suspision of other JWs. In the magazines, talks, and dramas, there were continuous examples of "bad JWs" that were causing problems for "good JWs". I would shudder when these came up because it fueled the infighting and hostility among the sheeple.

  Whether it's dying or not, at least I'm glad I'm not involved in that train wreck.
• 

  twice shy

  The more accesible the correct answers to the false knowledge is... the more it will decline.

  Attendance is at record lows. The org will continue to decline. It will not be the mega society it once was before the internet blew up.

  They havent a clue how to hold on to the sheep. The tighter the noose the more they buck.

  Everyone is suspicious of the other person as each one turns on each other.

  Restructuring the DO's to larger Regions, but still at the same size venues gives the ILLUSION of growth.

  The internet has become more powerful than they ever could of imagined and in an effort to try and control everyone's thoughts they have just about missed the boat.

  Just my cent and a half
• 

  The Searcher

  Money talks!!

  And after the worlwide announcement of the new donation arrangement, it's screaming at many of the sheeple in plain language, "Stop giving!!!"

  The hierarchy in the Org will react pretty harshly when the bottom line fails to match the pledges made, and that will generate more being alienated.

  I was pleasantly astounded last when speaking to a very loyal (to the Org) and spiritually mature brother who's whole life is centred around the "truth". He told me that neither he nor his aged mother had filled out pledges, because "he didn't fully understand what was behind it".

  I decided to enlighten him, by explaining about paedophile lawsuits, hedge funds, and the rip-off sentence which was added to the new donation arrangement letter, ("Please note, funds received for this new programme will form part of our general funds, rather than a restricted fund, however your preference for the donations to be used for construction will be noted.") allowing the Org to use the money for ANYTHING - not for the reasons stated in the letter, namely, to build lovely Kingdom and Assembly Halls for poor Witnesses worldwide!

  I told him to Google Candace Conti!
• 

  zophar

  It reminds me of the teaching on the "fall" of "Babylon the Great." According to the 1/1/200 WT:

  "1919, Babylon the Great could not prevent the Bible Students, as Jehovah’s Witnesses were then known, from escaping from their inactive state and embarking on a worldwide witnessing campaign that still continues. (Matthew 24:14) That signaled a fall for Babylon the Great, just as the release of Israel in the sixth century B.C.E. signaled a fall for ancient Babylon."

  They say it "fell" in 1919, but it is still alive and kicking. Especially Islam on the "kicking" part! Yet, while many churches are mostly empty, religion lives on. As already stated, same could be true of JW's. There is a core of people who hang on to their religion no matter what.

  Just had a discussion with a "Partaker" who has been partaking since 50's and whose parents partook. Discussed recent "adjustments." He is clueless on explaining adjustments in FDS and other things. The longer we spoke, the less he seemed to know or have thought about regarding implications of "adjustments". I wanted to ask how it felt when he got the demotion from FDS but didn't. Seemed to me that no matter what the men in NY say, he would eat it down without thinking for self.

  I was the same way for a long time. Just would not allow myself to question the rather obvious. Dissonance finally became too much.

  I remember calling on a man who had devoted himself to Armstrong's Worlwide Church of God. When "adjustments" came, he was so disillusioned that he bar came an Atheist.

  I think JW will be around in some form for a long time.
• 

  skeeter1

  I do not attend the JW meetings, and haven't since the mid-1980s. I will take your assessments that the WTS is in decline. Having been on this board for almost 9 years (wow), I have sure seen alot of newbies. And, congregations are no longer 120+ members strong, having to split congregations, etc. The Internet and information age will take away their followers and keep new ones from joining in the great numbers, and old age will take away another group.

  Why my own 3 relatives that still "cling" to this cult do so, is beyond me. But, they all three find alot of fault with it. But, they equate the borg with being Jehovah, so they stay in.
• 

  DJS

  Lots of great comments and analysis. Thanks guys. Billy, I always enjoy your posts. Twice Shy, nice post. Cults by their nature eat their own, and the Borg is the leader of the pack in this regard. That was one of the things I began to despise about it. Rules, near-rules, almost rules, rules llight, walk, talk and sound like rules pitted one person against the other, just as the Dark Lords intended. Nothing like controlling the masses than peer pressure. Nothing like removing individual conscience and freedom of choice by pitting brother against brother.

  Cults also tend to be paranoid/delusional, so any threat or perceived threat, regardless of the type or origin, will eliicit the only response they know: more of the same, intensified. Twice Shy, if you are speaking from recent experience then I would say this is predictable.

  The literature and assemblies were cash cows. From what I hear those two have dried up, as the literature is smaller, has less content and there isn't as much of it. Reducing the assemblies also suggests they are not feeling the love ($) from these as much. The Borg was also fueled financially for years by a lot of fairly successful individuals in the West and by the above average growth in Western (richer) lands. And free labor. They began bleeding the most capable and intelligent before the Internet arrived on scene; I imagine the bleeding continues at a higher pace as Twice Shy points out. The growth is in third world and developing countries, so the $ grab from local congregations suggests some intense cash flow problems. Good for them.

  The power of the Internet will continue to explose the Borg's ridiculousness and cause many to exit or wither. The siren's song of higher education will pull more and more of the Borg into it; it isn't likely they will hang around once they get a taste of freedom and especially the freedom to learn. The Borg loses nearly 70% of its born-ins, and the younger generation, from what you all say, hasn't bought in and aren't true believers. Bleeding of the best and brightest will continue. Growth in Western lands and secular countries (Japan, Korea, etc.) will likely retract.

  Having said all of this, and as many posters have pointed out, dumbass cults have been able to survive and even thrive for a long time. As long as there are enough brain dead adherents and newbies buying in to the paradise they will somehow make it. I wish they would be fully exposed for what they are and be eliminated from the planet, but I just don't see it happening. They are already insignificant. And will likely become moreso.

  Convince me otherwise; I would love to see its demise.
• 

  Finkelstein

  The Org. is set to make more money deceivingly based from the fact that the organization's

  Head Quarters have been making hundreds of millions in profits from selling off its branches

  world wide and now instituting a tithe on to every Congregation, masked as construction money

  for newly built Kingdom or Assembly Halls.

  More money, more money and more lies to cultivate that money.

  .

  The corruption part comes in that the actual money that the organization has never gets disclosed to the members

  at the Halls, they are just told that the organization needs more, therefore exploiting that apparent ignorance.
• 

  QC

  Lambs: "But I say this religion (even though its always been 'sick') is slowly dying."

  I agree totally.

  It will be a sudden collapse; similar to the collapse of Evolution and religion generally.
• 

  JeffT

  I've been in my current home, a condo in a well developed and growing part of town, for seven years. I've been retired and mostly at home for the last five. I have NEVER been contacted here by JW's. I'm thiry miles and 25 years away from my disassociation so I'm sure they have no idea that there's an apostate here. I lived in a rural area outside the city outside the city for about 8 years starting in the mid 90's. We were contacted at least three times there. Clearly preaching is not being pursued the way it was.

  I don't know if the org will die, there will always be some sheep needing direction. But something serious will have to change if it is going to regain the fire they had when I joined during the run up to 1975.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Something to keep in mind is that there are now 7 billion people living in the world.

  Most in under developed countries that have little access to the inter-net and actualy may be bound by the language they have.

  Sorry folks the Org. isn't going anywhere soon.

  The growth may stifle in the more modernized countries but the 3rd world countries thats where your most likely to see

  the most growth.