by lambsbottom 101 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Pistoff mentioned #1 "keep walking away from the blood doctrine"
I was amazed recently to find out the elders manual has changed the way of handling situations when publishers take blood. Not necessarily a disfellowshipping offense.
Most may be aware of this but I wasnt. News to me!
I do not believe that WT can be reformed like did European churches in 16th century. They will adapt to keep membership increasing or at least stagnant. They can successfully cut from the past as did Rutherford from Russell's followers, but they cannot change their core doctrine. It is End-Time cult that thrives on promoting the Armageddon scenario. It is its brand and purpose. It cannot move from it or push it out of the sight. Additionally, there is always a demand for cult that promotes imminent whipe out of entire humanity. They had existed in the antiquity, thrived in medieval times, and became dominant in Northern America where majority of modern End-cults originated.
Others also compare WT to totalitarian regimes-which is- like USSR. However, you see it as a political entity, not like cultural-social entity. For example Russian culture survived Tsarism, Soviet Union, WWI & WWII, civil war, and disintegration of the Soviet empire. However, the Russian culture is stil here. The political system had changed. WT is moving along the same principle. Its political system will change, but its cultural fabric will survive. WT is not going anywhere, and they will be here far longer than anyone of us stay alive.
The best "hope" of the organization dying off is membership apathy not antagonism. Contrary to what Data-Dog argues, fighting against the organization will only serve to embolden and stimulate it.
Apathy much more so that apostasy will see the organization die off.
I disagree. If the public are educated about JWs [ REALLY educated, as in, " most JWs are nice but misguided", No storming of literature carts...] the more members of the public will say, " Not interested."
That will create apathy in some [ not all] JWs, and it may help them awaken. Also, there is no way to stop the ORG from using the "persecution" card. The point is to have the apathy overshadow the illusion of persecution. For that to happen, more people must know the facts about the "religion."
A more educated public, who actually KNOW that their local dubs are victims, can go along way in making Jwism less relevant in the near future. Discreetly handing out cards or small flyers with the facts, is not the same as yelling at Dubs in your neighborhood.
Imagine the effect that hearing "not interested" EVERYWHERE would have. Or better yet, a concerned workmate, neighbor, or teacher reasoning with a secretly doubting Dub at just the right time.
There is no downside to discreetly and politely spreading the truth. It WILL pay off in the long run. Doing NOTHING will NEVER pay off. It never has.
DD
Actually I think both steve & DD are right.
To Steve's point, I'm very much of the belief that the WTs main threat to existence is apathy of members. You already see it and it seems to be getting worse. They can't figure out what to do about it and I think they are hoping these ICs will give a boost at least here in the US. Just like opening the GAM last Oct. However, as big of a morale boost that was it quickly faded. The same with everything they've come up with recently. It's the weekly grind, the boring meetings where the speakers don't even seem to care, the FS on the same houses with the same people who aren't interested in their message. That's why you see (again in the US) people wanting to go to other language groups to break the boredom.
To datadog's point, the public,especially in 3rd world countries where there is actual growth coming from the door to door work (NOT the case in the developed countries where the only folks with no affiliation that come in are quite frankly trainwrecks), could be told in a logical reasonable way what the issues are. How many householders accept a copy of the WT and Awake only to google JWs? That's what I would do. And once you do that, you quickly see what a mess they are and would stay away.
Overall, if you aren't growing you are shrinking. They've clearly hit their peak growth but I really think the lifecycles for religions span hundred of years barring some sort of black swan. Even the Bible Students are still around!! My prediction is that JWs will start experiencing negative growth in the next 10 years and will slowly shrink to a small group over the course of the next 50. But, they will exist when I die barring some sort of major unexpected event.
Fencing - "They can't remove shunning without simultaneously going totally mainstream in their belief system. Disfellowshipping is what keeps everyone in line and following all the rules. Without that effective threat of punishment, the whole thing collapses. You keep all the crazy rules and take away the threat of losing your entire social structure, and there's no reason for anyone to do anything the GB says anymore."
Yup.
Go authentically mainstream, and they'd have to (among other things) drop shunning.
But drop shunning, and you inevitably remove the stigma of having left voluntarily.
Remove that stigma, and you'd see a mass exodus.
The Org wouldn't survive it, partly because its corporate structure is based - in part - on a 20th Century capitalist business model in one crucial aspect...
...it requires constant growth (i.e. revenue influx) to continue.
In western countries door to door work is already completely ineffective. the public doesn't give a flying you know what about the org. Nobody in my territory even comes to the door. The level of growth is almost soley due to relatives and children of JWs in the west. We had 2 baptized at the last circuit assembly. baptims numbers in the west are decreasing. to the general public JWs are irrelevant.
Internal apathy is what will kill the religion. Continuing to cry wolf with yearly historic campaigns will eventually wear people out. Not wear them out in the sense of making them tired, but causs them no longer take anything the GB says seriously. Already most young people are just going through the motions. They remain in because they love the instant friends and the social aspect. That's the part I will miss most. Some people achieve levels of popularity in the organization that they would never achieve in the world. JWs are a very demanding religion, but its becoming less demanding. This lessening of the load ironically will cause greater apathy.
kneehighmiah - "...its becoming less demanding."
"Listen, obey, and be blessed" over and over and over and over again is less demanding?
door to door work brings few if any into the org.... as for the newly instigated sit by your trolley work.....well...here in our town two sisters..(who are also real sisters) sit by their trolley each tuesday morning. no one comes to them and they don't approach any passersby.....complete waste of time and resources..and from what i can gather it's usually sisters who do this work...can't imagine brothers or elders doing it...seems that subservient sisters use it to demonstrate their wholehearted subjection .....
@vidiot. the workload is less demanding meaning less rigorous.
adjective
: requiring much time, attention, or effort
: expecting much time, attention, effort, etc., from other people : hard to satisfy
