The Views of "Normal Muslims" on Radical Islam (page 3)

cofty

Apog - Really?

Answer your own false comparison please.

Apognophos

Do you think one of those men who rasied their hands would raise a finger to stop a fellow Muslim from obeying the Quran?

I honestly couldn't answer that. Even if I knew these men personally, I wouldn't know because they probably wouldn't know themselves unless the situation actually happened in front of them. I seriously question whether you have superior knowledge of what these people really believe. I also don't know where these people came from. Is this really a conference with a moderate audience? I don't know.

Anyway, I don't deny that Islam is problematic, but what I do object to is the concern over highly-hypothetical scenarios. The fear seems to be that Muslims will be able to turn back progress in existing Western civilizations. We're supposed to believe that one day there'll be apostates getting stoned in the streets of England and burkas on all women in American shopping malls. I just can't buy it.

Apognophos

Answer your own false comparison please.

Sorry, you mean my analogy of the siblings? The sister is at fault if she gets kicked. Duh.

cofty

I seriously question whether you have superior knowledge of what these people really believe.

I pay them the respect of taking them at their word when they tell us what they believe. Why won't you?

We're supposed to believe that one day there'll be apostates getting stoned in the streets of England and burkas on all women in American shopping malls. I just can't buy it.

Says who? Not me.

The sister is at fault if she gets kicked. Duh.

If somebody pokes me I will eventually use force to stop them. If somebody ridicules my beliefs I will use reason evidence to prove them wrong. If somebody draws funny cartoons to poke fun at my beliefs I will laugh, I won't call for the death of the artist.

cofty

The fear seems to be that Muslims will be able to turn back progress in existing Western civilizations.

We have already had shocking disclosures about the state of a number of secular state schools in England who have lost control to Muslim governors and teaching staff.

Apognophos

It's wrong for them to react that way, sure, but I don't understand this argument that if people are sensitive about something, they need to be poked in the sensitive area until they stop being sensitive. It doesn't have the desired effect.

Says who? Not me.

Okay, sorry, then I'm conflating your viewpoint with others here. What do you feel the danger is, if not the creeping of sharia law into the West? Is it simply the continung inhumane behavior in Muslim countries that you are concerned with? I'm just trying to get to the heart of why you started the thread.

Edit: Regarding your last post, do you have some links to stories I could read about that? (Yes, I could Google it.)

Oubliette

Cofty: If we sat each of those men down one by one for an informal chat and asked them if Muhammad was wrong about women, and about how non-muslims should be viewed and about how to treat apostates, do you believe they would answer any differently?

No I do not, nor did I imply that by referring to Asch's work.

The interesting question is how did these people come to have these beliefs?

Here is where the conformity principle comes into play. They (as are anyone raised in an authoritarian, high-control group) have been indoctrinated with these ideas since birth, usual in a group setting where the pressure to conform is high.

So then, when an adult that has been indoctrinated since childhood with a set of beliefs is asked individually, and even privately, what he believes he will invariably respond with the group's answer. He will probably even think he came to this conclusion of his own free will.

cofty

I'm just trying to get to the heart of why you started the thread. - Apog

I think the OP says it quite succinctly.

You illustrated it perfectly when you questioned whether Muslims really believe what they tell us they do.

cofty

Oubliette - Sorry I misunderstood your earier post.

I believe it is not unreasonable to draw a comparison between the JW cult and Islam.

The conduct and opinions of inactive JWs do not provide evidence for the actual beliefs and practices of mainstream JWs. Similarly the fact that some westernised Muslims don't discriminate against women and view non-Muslims with contempt, does not excuse the alter teachings of the prophet.

confusedandalone

" Why are so many people reluctant to pay Muslims the respect of believing them, when they declare the motivation for their beliefs and actions? "

Excellent point. After a number of posts a week ago I was AT FIRST a bit surprised to see the hatred being spewed and the chants for them to "go back" and drop bombs on them. Then I realized that Christianity is really no worse, and there are extremists in Christianity that are just as bad. A JW or Baptist would be very happy to know that GOD would kill his enemies! Rejoice even. Yet Muslims feel the same way, its just a very small portion will act on it... the extremists

The Views of "Normal Muslims" on Radical Islam

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