Evolution and spirits

by Chris Tann 149 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cofty

  Do you really think this kid is gonna walk up a wall ,on a ceiling and land on his feet while holding his grandma's hand all by himself?

  He didn't. Did you not read any of the replies carefully?

  I wont untill it is proven completley false

  Then you are doomed to a life of being taken in by every bullshit con-artist out there.

  You completely misunderstand the principle of the burden of proof. "That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

  Skepticism is your friend...

  Please make the above website your constant companion, and take a look at Michael Shermer's Baloney Detection Toolkit.

  ...
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  Chris Tann

  Cofty. My tablet doesn't support the plug-in. Please give me the site address,thnx. Also I will go back and re-read the article more carefully.
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  LisaRose

  When I was deceived into joining the religion I heard (and believed) many such stories. After a while I began to notice a certain sameness to the them. Everything happened to "a friend of a friend", details were murky or absent. Supposedly demons could easily be brought into a person's life by buying used objects from garage sales. After buying hundreds of things from garage sales I never had one thing spontaneously move or talk or cause spirits to appear.

  I eventually came to understand that these stories were just that, stories. When you take away the fear and the hysteria, with billions of humans on the earth (most with cell phones they could use to record such a thing) somehow these demons have left no record of their existence except a few people who claim, with no proof, that something happened.

  You can choose to believe in such things, just like a persn can choose to believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the great pumkin, but you simply cannot pretend there is any evidence for it. Anecdotal accounts are proof of nothing.
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  Coded Logic

  The child was holding grandmas hand the whole time it walked up the wall and fliped over. It's quite easy to walk up a wall and do a flip when you're braced against someone. No supernatural forces neccissary. Just everyday physics.

  Also, black flies exist independent of the occult.

  Stairs creaking are part of the natural world. Not the supernatural world.

  It is possible that there was an ACTUAL man standing in her bedroom when she woke up. A naturalistic explination is far more likely than a supernatural one. Though, as she had just woken up, it was quite likely a hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucination.

  The girl levitating is the only one that I think would actually qualify as being "supernatural". And of course, this is the one where only once person witnessed the event. There are several possibilities here. The mother could be outright lying. The mother could be exagerating what she saw (during exocisms "levitations" are anytime a majority of the body is elevated, like when only your head and toes are touching the bead. Levitation does not mean completing floating in the air). Another possiblity is that the mother was experiancing some sort of psychosis. And finaly the last explination is that an actual supernatural event occured.

  Out of those options, which one is most likely? And which one is the least likely?

  Lying, exagerating, being mistaken, and hallucinating have all been demonstrated to occure. That is why those explinations are all known to be possible. The supernatural explination however, has NOT been demonstrated to occure. Thus we cannot definitively say that it is possible. And I'm going to put my money on possible events as more likely explinations than events which have not been shown to be possible.

  *before you even try to go there, I am NOT saying the supernatural is "impossible". What I'm saying is that in order to make the claim that "something IS possible" you must have either precident or something of parallel comparison. Without either of those, you cannot know that a thing is possible.
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  cofty

  Chris - www.skeptic.com
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  Caedes

  Concrete thinkers however, which all JWs are, and some continue to be once they wake up, need to have defined bounderies for their beliefs. Concrete thinking is very childlike and does not give a person the balance that is required as an adult.

  Having concrete beliefs about God, evolution and spirits is not essential for happiness. Having concrete views on these things can cause many to push their views on others using teqniques such as intellectual bullying. This is a childish and unhealthy way to communicate.

  Katewild,

  I should point out that I probably count as one of those 'concrete' thinkers to you. Personally I don't think it is 'concrete' to follow empirical evidence, if the evidence shows that I am wrong I am happy to adjust my view. I think it is far more 'concrete' to doggedly cling to a belief in the supernatural despite a complete lack of empirical evidence.

  My main point regarding your quoted posts was the inconsistancy however, you claim that people who disagree with your worldview are 'concrete' thinkers and are thus childish and lack the skills to be an adult. Your next post you whine about intellectual bullying after a whole post in which you make an ad hominen attack on those who disagree with you. The reason it feels like intellectual bullying is because intellectually you know full well that believing things without empirical evidence is foolish.
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  Ucantnome

  on this thread is my experiece when i was young and i think it made a difference in why i still believe in God and still in some ways can't totally dismiss my witness past.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/194629/1/My-Grandfather

  just an addition to it my baby brother used to wail every time he got near the house in those months.
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  KateWild

  Caedes,

  You have made a wrong assumption about my beliefs. I don't believe in ghosts. You don't know what concrete and abstract thinking is. Changing your mind does not mean you're an abstract thinker. I am afraid you're mistaken about a lot of things in my post and sadly I did not post clearly enough to help you see my perspective.

  Abstract thinking is a skill that adults develop. It's the ability to read between the lines with out all the evidence. The ability to have dicernment about a particular situation or topic and draw conclusions based on limited information. Concrete thinking is black and white thinking. Only drawing conclusions if you can see them. The world is not black and white, showing understanding for a variety of people and situations requires abstract thinking, we can't always see everything, so we need the ability to read between the lines and teach our children to do the same.

  Kate xx
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  cofty

  And what has any of that got to do with believing in demons?
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  KateWild

  The thread is about evolution and spirits cofty. If a person has had an experience they can believe in both as they are not mutually exclusive. I was just responding to Ceades post as he did not know what concrete and abstract thinking is.

  Kate xx