Dateline and Perspective

by non_trias_theos 49 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  non_trias_theos

  Two people can behold the same situation and conclude totally different things from their observations. The Pharisees saw Jesus performing miracles and thought that he was empowered by Beelzebub. Others watched the same thaumaturgic wonders and praised Jesus as the Son of God. It is all a matter of perspective.

  In like manner, some will see Dateline and think that they do not want any Jws coming to dey door preaching the Christian good news. Others will recognize that while some Jws may participate in horrible acts like child molestation, most of the more than six million jws throughout the world detest and abhor such practices.

  Again it is all a matter of perspective. Two men were standing behind jail bars. One saw mud and the other beheld the stars. The truth of God will prevail.

  Yours
  Non
• 

  Lionel_P_Hartley

  : Two people can behold the same situation and conclude totally different things from their observations. The Pharisees saw Jesus performing miracles and thought that he was empowered by Beelzebub. Others watched the same thaumaturgic wonders and praised Jesus as the Son of God. It is all a matter of perspective.

  And, in this case, one group was misled - so too are many brainwashed dubs who only will change their "minds" when God the GB tells them they can. History proves that much.

  But this time, methinks the JWs have suffered one blow too many - the UN scandal and now this all within 6 months, and in the national presses of the US and the UK.

  nonentity
• 

  morrisamb

  Thank you for posting your perspective. I just interviewed someone for a column I write in Canada.
  I asked:
  What do you believe Christ thinks of people who are cruel or prejudiced to people who are different?

  The Bible says, ‘What you do unto the least of these you do onto me.’ One woman said to me, ‘How can you go to church?’ I said, ‘On two legs like the rest of you.’

  Why I thought of this interchange was because I wonder why your perspective doesn't focus on the victims in this story. Of course, most of the Witnesses aren't molesters. God, my siblings and I were victims and we still know that. So what?

  I've mentioned this before here, but your logic reminds me of a former roommate I had, a German. We were watching a documentary on the Hollocaust and after it was done he says to me, "You know it was a great lie. 6 million Jew didn't die. It was only a million."
  I replied, "That's the most insensitive thing I've ever heard!"

  I'm sure you get the point!
• 

  moman

  What does your post have to do with "Institutionalized cover-up".

  Or could it be that the TAX-FREE Publishing company, aka (The Watchtower Bible & Track Society) wants to continue perpetuating the false impression that, "Jehovaha's people are a happy people", like most money making corporations?

  Whats next?....... Shunning, unpatriotioc self-serving behavior, DEAD lambs (blood lunacy) & all kinds of UNCLEANESS!
  I can't wait!
• 

  NeonMadman

  In like manner, some will see Dateline and think that they do not want any Jws coming to dey door preaching the Christian good news.

  Jehovah's Witnesses do not preach the Christian Good News. The Christian Good News is summarized in the first few verses of 1 Corinthians 15:

  Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
  For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.

  This is not the "good news" that Jehovah's Witnesses talk about when they come to people's doors. They want to talk about their inaccurate chronology and a kingdom that was supposedly established invisibly in Heaven in 1914. They want to tell people about the paradise earth that will exist after God removes "the wicked" from the earth (not mentioning that "the wicked" includes the householder to whom they are speaking). They want to tell people about God's one true organization, to which one must attach oneself to have a hope of surviving mass destruction by their insane god. But the elements that Paul mentions in the above quotation - the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ - rarely, if ever, come into their discussion of the "good news".

  The truth of God will prevail.

  Yes, it will. And when it does, the Watchtower will crumble. I think Dateline last night was a big step in that direction.

  Tom

  "Gentlemen, he said, I don't need your organization, I've shined your shoes, I've moved your mountains and marked your cards. But Eden is burning"
  --Bob Dylan
• 

  metatron

  Here's an observation: Once you catch them lying, what then?

  What else is the Society covering up?
  What else are they lying about?

  The blood transfusion fraud looms like a dark-hooded Grim Reaper
  over this organization. The Watchtower leadership knows that
  this issue is a fraud. They can't defend it with any depth
  from the Bible. They are desperately trying to tiptoe away
  from it, hoping that the brothers and sisters don't notice.

  And potentially, it is TEN TIMES more explosive
  than their immoral coverup of child molesters.

  did I say ten? maybe a HUNDRED times worse!

  metatron
• 

  out4good3

  I only hope that one day the WT association with the UN would hit the national spotlight. Maybe they can quietly tiptoe away from these other issues but I think with they way they have villified the UN, they would be hard pressed to explain that away.
• 

  patio34

  Hello Non,

  Fortunately your line of reasoning would not hold up in any court of law. With your rationale, nothing could ever be decided definitely, it seems to me.

  It sounds as though a judicial committee goes to the other extreme of the spectrum, that there is no view but theirs. No witnesses allowed, just 3 that act as judge, jury, and executioner.

  Pat
• 

  non_trias_theos

  $$$Why I thought of this interchange was because I wonder why your perspective doesn't focus on the victims in this story. Of course, most of the Witnesses aren't molesters. God, my siblings and I were victims and we still know that. So what?$$$

  The perspective that non posted was designed to counter charges that jw is a pedo paradise. Not so. But non and other jws are concerned about the victims of child abuse. Many of jw are parents. We love our children and do not want them going through severe trauma as a result of some person who just could not exercise self-control or who has some type of behavioral problem. It is therefore unfair for you to imply that non does not care about the victims. He does. Non also hates unjust portrayals though.

  $$$I've mentioned this before here, but your logic reminds me of a former roommate I had, a German. We were watching a documentary on the Hollocaust and after it was done he says to me, "You know it was a great lie. 6 million Jew didn't die. It was only a million."
  I replied, "That's the most insensitive thing I've ever heard!"$$$

  Non does not think the comparison is a fair one at all. The Holocaust has been extensively documented and one has good reason to believe that at least 6 million jews were killed in that tragedy. The numbers that non brought up in his post are fair in view of the allegations hurled at jws.

  $$$Jehovah's Witnesses do not preach the Christian Good News. The Christian Good News is summarized in the first few verses of 1 Corinthians 15:

  Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
  For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.

  $$$

  You are being reductionistic. You are guilty of nothing-but-ness. Paul preached about God's kingdom too.

  $$$This is not the "good news" that Jehovah's Witnesses talk about when they come to people's doors.$$$

  jw preach the same message as Paul and Jesus. But the good news has many different facets.

  $$$They want to talk about their inaccurate chronology and a kingdom that was supposedly established invisibly in Heaven in 1914. They want to tell people about the paradise earth that will exist after God removes "the wicked" from the earth (not mentioning that "the wicked" includes the householder to whom they are speaking).$$$

  When Paul encouraged his nonChristian contemporaries to repent, did he tell them that the wicked he was condemning was they?

  $$$They want to tell people about God's one true organization, to which one must attach oneself to have a hope of surviving mass destruction by their insane god. But the elements that Paul mentions in the above quotation - the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ - rarely, if ever, come into their discussion of the "good news".$$$

  The destruction of this wicked world is coming. Bet your bottom dollar on it. The bible says it is coming. Non also notices that you soften your claim now. You know that the elements you mention are not totally excluded from the jw message. The good news has many facets including the kingdom and Jesus's deathn and resurrection.

  $$$

  The truth of God will prevail.

  Yes, it will. And when it does, the Watchtower will crumble. I think Dateline last night was a big step in that direction.$$$

  If jw are God's organization, you will not be able to topple them with some puny Dateline show. But even from a sociological and psychological viewpoint, it is very doubtful that dateline will have the effect you want it to. Look at the history of the Catholic church. It has committed atrocious acts for hundreds of years and with what result? It has more zealots today than it ever did. One day the Catholics might fall in this world. But it will not be because of some show like Dateline.
• 

  non_trias_theos

  Dear patio

  $$$Fortunately your line of reasoning would not hold up in any court of law. With your rationale, nothing could ever be decided definitely, it seems to me.$$$

  Courts rely on the principle of epistemic fallibilism for mostly reasons that can be deemed pragmatic. But we are not talking about courts right now, are we? Non is dealing with sociological fictive realities. The ficitive reality in this case is how society acts when it apprehends certain data. History shows that things like the Dateline show do not make major adjustments in the attitudes of others. Maybe sometimes. But hardly ever when it comes to religion.

  $$$It sounds as though a judicial committee goes to the other extreme of the spectrum, that there is no view but theirs. No witnesses allowed, just 3 that act as judge, jury, and executioner.$$$

  Non sees little relevance to a jc at this point. Non is talking about the court of public opinion.