IW, Because we express our opinions and ask for clarification does not make us thick headed, and there is no reason for you to use that kind of language. We are simply trying to understand why you keep talking about your exception to the rule. WHY?
Treating the pioneers "Just So."
by LDH 95 Replies latest jw friends
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IslandWoman
Hi SloBoy,
If I misunderstood your post I sincerely apologize. Yes, it is good to have each other. Many of us would be all alone if it wasn't for this place.
I will be signing off now, its late for me.
Take Care,
IW
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D8TA
Hey, I don't agree with IW's opinion nor endorse it, but:
Larc said:
IW, Because we express our opinions and ask for clarification does not make us thick headed, and there is no reason for you to use that kind of language.
Oh boy...look, Larc The Almighty is giving the board yet another "how to use language appropriately" lesson. Pray tell, Great Teacher, shall we again use language only acceptable by your standards? Are you offended? Are you drinking again?
Hey...suck on this old man...I think your an idiot. Problem with it? Tough. Is that clear enough for you? I dont care if it's appropriate to your standards or not. Frankly, if we met and you told me how to use language appropraitely, surely someone with your intelligence understands the hazards of doing so. That's reality.
Now, I dont have a problem with opinions...what I have a problem with, is you telling the rest of this board what is and isn't appropriate as to form of communication....and in essence... you are NOT stating an opinion...but dictating to us.
So....I'm going to make something else clear. Don't respond to this post. I'm not going to post on your topics, nor respond to anymore of your replies. I'm not going to engage in a flame war. Stay outta my way and I'll stay outta yours. Just let it end here.
D8TA
Edited by - D8TA on 20 June 2002 0:43:31
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larc
D8TA, should I take your comments to mean that you don't agree with my point of view?
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LDH
Jim, you may want to edit your comment. You know, this one.
thats why I wasn't made an elder until I pioneered for around 15 yrs!
See, up until I read that sentence, I thought you were a pretty smart guy!
HOLY CROW 15 years a pioneer and *then* they made you an elder. Just goes to show the elder arrangement is of men and not God.
Lisa
I thought 4 years was a lot! Class
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MissyMoesGhost
GOOD POST how did I miss this one!
Therefore, after my first year of regular pioneering, I stopped putting money in the contribution box.
Lisa
AWESOME!!!!
Kisses,
Moe
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Prisca
When I was regular pioneering (for almost four years) I thought for sure the congregation would be generous with me. I didn't necessarily *need* anything, but surely Jehovah would let me see how much the congregation "appreciated my efforts."
This certainly sounded to me like Lisa was expecting some kind of hand-out when she was pioneering.
And since her parents were quite well-off, I would assume that the congregation thought she was probably supported by her parents, and thus in no need for any financial help.
In my experience, the congregation didn't offer you financial support simply because you were a pioneer... you had to be "in need" of such help in order to receive anything.
Young pioneers living at home who had wealthy parents, are not likely to receive anything, whereas the middle-aged pioneer renting a shabby apartment and working as a cleaner would be more likely to receive help.
The "envelope with enough money to pay the rent down to the cent" type of experiences were about those in desperate need. They were related to try to get us to think that no matter how desperate situations could appear, divine help would come our way.
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puppylove
Lisa, remember "Jane" on witnet? No matter what experience someone related on witnet, "Jane's" experience was the picture perfect Watchtower view of life:
Congregation was wonderful. Most moms didn't work. They owned their own house. Her husband was an elder. Etc., etc. She made me want to puke. No matter what someone said, Jane's world was perfect.
IW reminds me of her. It's pointless to point out any opposing perceptions of life.
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mrs rocky2
Island Woman - while you may have had exceptionally good experiences in your corner of the world, the fact that so many have not had good experiences is telling. JWs and WT preach they are 'United in pure worship.' Yet these little things, like how pioneers and COs are treated (not necessarily materially) differently speaks volumes about the inconsistencies in JW theology. I don't think most people who join the ranks of pioneers expect to be materially supported. They wouldn't be pioneering if they felt that way. But, the WT does repeatedly use this reasoning, that putting Kingdom interests first, will result in all your needs being cared for.
My mother-in-law has pioneered on and off over the last 47 years, the last stretch was a 10 year stint and only quit because her husband was dying. He was not a Witness, and pinchy when it came to $$$. She often went without. I remember how she would line her winter boots with plastic bags because she couldn't buy new ones. (We were equally poor or I would have bought her new boots.) The congregation rarely helped her, and I don't mean materially. They did not support her emotionally, nor do they support her emotionally now. Of course, this local congregation is a shining example of showing favoratism. There are two younger pioneer sisters new to the area. The congregation secretary offered them a vacation in Hawaii if they would read the Bible cover to cover. But none of the elders would help a mildly mentally retarded newly baptized sister get to the District Convention. We took her in our old camper with our kids (truck only had two seatbelts, so there were 3 adults, 2 kids). She rode home from convention in another camper, family with 5 kids. A widowed sister shared her hotel room (the mildly mentally retarded sister split the costs) but I never heard so much complaining when we got home. Sister widow complained (and not just to me, but the entire congregation) about her room mate's lack of social skills. That was the last convention this mentally retarded sister attended.
Yet where my parents live, 300 miles from here, they take very good care of the pioneers. The body of elders take the pioneers to dinner once a month. They never have to use their own cars for service. They are never without 'new' (new to them, but very nice) clothes. And for the most part, the congregation consistently cares for their own, especially 'widows and orphans.' I believe they are exceptional.
In another congregation in Oregon we know personally a couple of pioneers - life time pioneers, 40+ years in the service. Brother Pioneer has always done manual part time labor to support them materially, Sister Pioneer has a few house cleaning jobs. They have given everything to the WT over the years, time, $$, emotion, doing without many things the rest of us might consider to be necessities. They are pushing 70 years old now. A couple of years ago they had a series of unforseen circumstances. Their car gave up (needed a new motor). Health problems. Got the car motor fixed but needed new tires. You would think someone would have noticed their need. These people took their vacation at the yearly conventions. They couldn't afford anything else. Only one family in their circuit took notice. And they were young and equally poor. Word travelled all the way to us via our young and poor friends and help was found - but not within the ranks of loyal JWs. So very sad. These experiences are the reality of JWs.
Jesus told his followers that they would be known by the love they had. He gave the illustration of the good Samaritan. So true followers of Christ would make great efforts to show love to their brothers and to those not related to them in the faith. This is not consistently practiced by WT followers. If it were there would be no need for this fine forum.
Day two of being on my soapbox, sorry for going on and on and on......
Mrs. R
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LDH
Pris, I understand your point. (Have you received your box?Haven't heard from ya.)
What I was saying is....The four years I spent I was looking for a SIGN, any SIGN, that Jehovah was blessing me.
I had no Bible Studies making any real progress. (Most in my small city interested in Bible Studies were welfare recipients who could mooch car rides off of pioneers, or elderly people who were lonely.)
The young people in my congregation who were pioneering were a ton of fun, but the older men who 'took the lead' in field service made sure we didn't work together every chance they got.
As a matter of fact, it got so bad in my congregation, the young people started meeting away from the KH so they could avoid the old brothers who were pioneering in retirement.
Therefore, any *sign* even like a token of appreciation, would have been most appreciated.
The elderly sister I mentioned knew I didn't *need* anything, but that didn't prevent her from buying me a pair of pantyhose. I think she bought pantyhose because us pioneer sisters were required to wear them daily, and it represented a significant chunk of money spent.
Puppy, I *totally* remember Jane. Thinly veiled apologist. IW has the same MO. She claims to want to present "the other side" of issues raised here -- but I bet you anything if someone started a thread about the GOOD memories they have, IW wouldn't be in there saying, "Now hold on just a second. My congregation SUCKED."
Lisa