God has picked Israel, Israel has proved to be disobedient. God prophesied all this would happen. In the end God's original unconditonal covenant whith Abraham is unilateraland Irrevocable.
Genesis 12:1"Go forth from your country,and from your relativesand from your father's to the land that I will show you. house 2I will make you great nation, And I will bless you, and make your name great; and so you shall be a blessing;3And I will bless those who bless you and the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
7.And the Jehovah appeared to Abraham and said to your descendants I will give this land. So he built an altar there to Jehovah who had appeared to him.( incidently this was not an angel making altars to angels isnt allowed)
The promise of the giving of that land to his descendants had no condition which Abraham had to keep.That was Jehovah's will just because he wanted to give him that promise.
God will fullfill his purpose in spite of what Abraham's descendants are srewing up.
Ezequiel touches on that something which Paul was apparently informed about.
Ezequiel 36:17 "Son of man, when the house of Israel was living in THEIR OWN LAND,(by virtue of God's promise to Abraham) they defiled it by their ways and thier deeds;their way before Me was like the uncleanness of a woman in her impurit.18"Therefore, I poured out My wrath on them for the blood which they had shed on the land,because they had defiled it with their idols.19"Also I scattered them among the nations, and they were dispersed throughout the lands. According to their ways and thier deeds I judged them.(The judgement was scattering them not destroying them)20'When they came to the nations where they went, they profaned My holy name, because it was said of them,'These people (natural Israel) are the people of Jehovah, yet they have come out of His land.'21"But I had concern for My holy name,which you have profaned among the nations where you went.22"Therefore, say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord God," It is not for your sake,(no, they didn't deserve it)O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name,which you have profaned among the nations where you went.23 "And I wil vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned against the nations, which you profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am Jehovah" declares the Lord God, when I prove Myself holy amoun you (natural Israel) in their sight. (How will God do that? Where were the natural Israelites among the nations, right?
This is how.):verse 24 " For I will take you (natural Israel) from the nations, gather you from all the lands,and bring you into your OWN LAND,(Remember this OWN LAND from verse 17? Its the same natural Israel) 25" Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you (natural Israel)will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.26 "Moreover, I will give you (natural Israel) a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone (that hardened heart)from your (natural Israel's) flesh and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27" And I will put My Spirit within you ( guess what? God makes them spiritual) and you will be careful to observe my ordinances . 28 " And you (natural Israel) will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; ( the natural relatives who were disobedient idol worhippers) and you(natural Israel) will be My people, and I will be your God.29" More over I will SAVE you form your uncleanness, and I will call for the
grain to multiply and the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, that you may not recieve again( again means it is the same Israel, this isn't a substitute Israel because they wouldnt have had experienced it before)the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31
" Then you will remember will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were no good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 "I am not doing this for your sake," declares the Lord God,"let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O House of (who? naturally)Israel!". 33 Thus says The Lord God, "On the day that I cleanse you(natur... ) from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt. 34"And the desolate land will be cultivated instead of being a desolation a desolation in the sight of everyone who passes by. 35 " And they willsay,' This desolate land has become like the garden of Eden; and the waste,desolate, and ruined cities are fortified and inahabited."36 Then the nations that are left round about you(na..... ......you get the picture you cant be that slow ) will know that I, the Lord, Have rebuilt the ruined places and planted that which is desolate; I THE LORD, HAVE SPOKEN AND WILL DO IT."
This is all about the restoration of Israel not the replacement of Israel.
What ealse do you guys need? Jehovah's E-mail? So that you can try to convince him what He will do? The Lord has spoken it,and will do it!
Sorry, and I really mean it sorry I don't have his E-mail. Try prayer. Stop parroting the Watchtower Magazines and start reading the Bible without the watchtower telling you what mental acrobatics and contortion you need to do so that you can see it their way. Read the Bible in context without reading watchtower self fullfiling prophesies that just aren't there, into it. Ask the Holy Spirit to
teach you. That works better than asking the watchtower to teach you. The Holy Spirit doesn't need to make changes or excuses for its false speculations. Try as you put it " the faith of Abraham", trust in God when he says " I, the Lord, have spoken and will do it."
1. The promise was made to Abraham
2.Disobedient Israel of old screwed things up especialy when they killed Jesus in the first century . They were scattered for that.
3. Israel of today are still paying for what their first century fathers did.
4.God will cleans them from their sins and soften their hardenend hearts.
God Bless
Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'
by Jr 117 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Emiliano
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Jr
Emiliano,
Jesus said, “This is why I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt.21:43)
Would you agree that all Christians in the first century were viewed as Israelites when they were grafted into this tree?
Talking of the Pharisees, Jesus went on, “On hearing they said: “Never may that happen!” But he looked upon them and said : “What, then, does this that is written mean, ‘The stone which the builder rejected, this has become the chief cornerstone’? Everyone falling upon the stone will be shattered. As for anyone upon whom it falls, it will pulverize him.”
Jehovah had every intention of Destroying and replacing this people. That is why Jesus said, “This is why I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt.21:43)
JR -
Jr
Remember, Paul made no distinction between a natural Jew and a gentile in the Christian congregation. He said they were no longer Jews based on fleshly relation. So, when James wrote this letter, he was talking to all Christians. The Christian congregation replaced the Jewish system. Now, if you say, only Jews were Christians, prove it.
JR
Edited by - Jr on 7 March 2001 9:33:56 -
bjc2012
Emiliano,
1. Since you have Jehovah's e-mail address, why don't you ask him to explain to you why he inspired Paul to write at Galatians 3:29, this. "Moreover, If you belong to christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise." This was directed to Gentiles.
2. Yes, Israel screwed up and they lost the opportunity to fulfill Exodus 19:6 to 'become a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'
3. Israel is paying only for their continued disobedience.
4. No, death acquitted Israel of their sin against the Law Covenant. They currently do not have a covenant with Jehovah as they rejected the New Covenant. Jehovah therefore has no obligation to do anything for them. -
TR
logical,
quote:
He has removed "stones" or political blockades . stumbling blocks such as man-made laws,
you're kidding, right?
TR -
Jr
So Emiliano,
As BJC2012 mentions 2 post up,
Galatians 3:29 says, "Moreover, If you belong to christ, you are really Abraham's seed, heirs with reference to a promise."
Would'nt this allow Jehovah to extend his promise to Abraham's seed, all those belonging to Christ, including the gentiles?
JR
Edited by - Jr on 7 March 2001 12:42:3 -
Jr
So, Jehovahs promise to the "Israelites" go to Abrahams seed, faithful Chrisians. These Christians, I must emphasize, must meet the very criteria outlined in my first post, which is based on scripture. And I quote, The “Spiritual Israel” that the bible speaks of in the last days, according to prophecy, has to meet certain criteria. Here are three that must be met by “Modern day Israel”:
1) Called by God’s Personal Name
2) Monotheistic (one God concept)
3) Iconoclastic (no images in worship)
These must be reflected in any group that might qualify as “Modern day Israel”. As you can see, there are not that many choices. Yes, I see scriptural support to show JWs as the nation of “Israel”, “Modern day Israel”. That is a serious statement considering what responsibility goes with carrying that name.
Yes, these ones must, and I repeat must, have the framework of truth in order to be considered " Modern-Day Israel".
JR -
logical
TR
No Im not. Are you? -
Emiliano
Bjc and Jr.
Apparently the watchtower has really done a number on you guys.
That last post from bjc is a perfect example of how you twist things that are written by reading things that are simply not there.
I never said I had Jehovah's E-mail. I said I was sorry that I didnt have it.I never said that only jews were christians. This is a very common symptom of people who have been in a mind control situation. I run into this type of things with Watchtowerites all the time. Comments like yes that is what the Bible says but that is not what it means. Or, yes thats what that verse says but thats not what we've been taught.
Try accepting what Jehovah says as something he means for a change.
You are totaly ignoring the post on Ezequiel 36
What part of "I, THE LORD, HAVE SPOKEN AND WILL DO IT" dont you get?
If God said that he will soften the heart of stone. He will do it!
If God said that he will put His spirit within them .He will do it!
If God said that they will live in the land of their forefathers. Then they will.
If God says that he will cleanse them he will!
All these things he will do not because they deserve it. He will do it for His name sake.
The promise was made to Abraham.
It had no condition.
The covenat of the law that was given to Israel (not to Abraham) was broken by Israel and as we all know they are paying for it, Jerusalem was crushed,the kingdom was taken away, they have been scattered etc. To this day they remain hardened. There will be an end to this, God will soften their hearts for His name sake.
When God puts his spirit within them they too will be spiritual.
As far as what is in Galatians 3, its not problem.
So far the gentiles are reaping the benefits of Israels temporary hardening. But when this ends according to Paul and Jehovah in Ezequiel 36 God will soften their hearts, put his spirit within them, cleanse them from their filth and them they will be obedient and they will be God's people and God will be their God.
This will be possible because God will make it possible.
If Israel is said to become obedient at that time, isnt part of that obedience their accepting Jesus as their King? There you have it!
They will be of Christ too, They too will have faith Just like Abraham
They will trust in God and be heirs to the promise.
Dont make the same mistake as Israel, they didnt have faith, it could lead to problems.
Ask the Holy Spirit to teach you. The Holy Spirit makes a much better teacher than the watchtower. The watchtower is constantly flip flopping their teaching because of false speculations. Stop trying to read into scripture watchtower self fullfilling prophesy that's just not there.
The Word of God doesn't change.( even though the watchtower is trying its best to, with its NWT)
Try reading the word in context. Dont let the watchtower hold your hand through a detoured filled biblical obstacle course.
Try having the faith of Abraham and believe Gods word.
The Israelites cant make God break his promise to Abraham.
Dont continue sidestepping these issues.
God bless -
MDS
TR:
There have been, some 138 CASES involving Jehovah's Witnesses, appeals and petitions that have been presented to the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT.
This does not count the many cases that have been brought forth and won, in foreign countries, like Canada, and Germany.
For example, on May 3, 1943 the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in favor of Jehovah's Witnesses on some 12 out of 13 cases, all of which were consolidated for hearing and opinion into four decisions.
On Jun 14, 1943, one month later, the United States Supreme Court again reversed itself, on the Gobitis case, and ruled in favor of Jehovah's Witnesses, "Virginia State board of Education vs. Barnette.
All things considered, we are reminded of the many issues fought and won by Jehovah's Witnesses, in the courts of the land, all over the world...over
1) military conscription into the Armed Forces,
2) the flag salute issue within the schools of the land,
3) the right to preach from door-to-door,
4) the right to "preach" publicly WITHOUT having to buy a "License," from local or state authorities,
5) the right to distribute religious literature without being taxed,
6)Clearing themselves of the charges of being anti-Government "seditionists," and so on.
Jehovah's Witnessse have fought and won, on all of these issues, in the courts of man, particularly since the year of 1943.
They have received much help from Jehovah God over legal issues and their right to practice their religious beliefs.
See "Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" pages 678-703.
MDS