A Question to All Believers in God??? (page 2)

JT

ISP SAYS:

Its far easier to conclude that there isn't a god or there isn't a god that cares than the obscure reasons why the all powerful all seing deity would allow an innocent 5 yr old to suffer an out and out traumatic end to her life

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THANKS for the post,

could you expand on what you think are some of those "OBSCURE REASON" why such would be allowed. An why would a "loving Father" make such things so "obscure" to his children.

We thank you in advance- I told my guest that they have to use the net more often to see and appreicate the power of chat rooms

James

Dutchie

Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

Although I know longer believe in the watchtower organization or taking the Bible literally, my faith in God is still intact. So, therefore, I can tell myself that in time God will clean up this planet, that the bad will be punished and that Jesus' sacrifice will have an impact on earth's inhabitants.

Maybe its just easier for me to think this way. I know that I feel comforted by these thoughts.

After all, who knows for sure what our real purpose in this universe is.

The Bible tells us that "all things are lawful". Perhaps there is a hint in that scripture that no matter what we do here on earth its just a choice that we make, be it murder, rape, drug addiction, they are not wrong they are just choices, but they do bear consequences.

As you can tell, I am still trying to figure all of this out but I must admit that at times, like in the case of the horrendous murder of this beautiful baby, my thoughts become JWish.

Edited by - Dutchie on 17 July 2002 19:37:9

JeffT

JT, back to your question. The jailbirds exacting revenge are not God, all of us are not their children. They have already, in some way, demonstrated that they have used their freewill to do something that society says deserves to be punished. Murdering this scum in prison will still be murder, and it is still a bad use of their freewill.

But I won't be at all upset when they send the rapist to hell.

pomegranate

my thoughts become JWish

JW's are the furthest thing from the truth. (In my mind)

I've (We've?) seen to much bad fruit, ya know?

Rotten fruit, rotten tree, rotten root.

Rot goes to the core.

added quote

Edited by - pomegranate on 17 July 2002 19:44:21

ISP

JT,

It depends what your idea of god is. If you believe that he listens to your every word at night and watches your steps, is all seeing.....all powerful....it is difficult to reconcile that while he is so attentive to you it is at the apparent expense of others.

If you think that god is less interested or involved it is reasonable for our expectations to be less and indeed our reverance. Awful things happen and will continue to happen.

ISP

Dutchie

Hi Prom, I agree with you. JW's are as far from the truth as you can get. I guess its just conditioning and sometimes the thoughts come and its like I have no control over them. I surprise myself sometimes. However, I believe that in time that will change. At least, I hope so.

The strange part is that intellectually I really don't believe any of that hokey, but all my life I have been taught to think a certain way and its darn hard to change, but I'm trying.

JT

Fran says:

"The death of one beautiful little girl pales beside all the horrors that have accompanied life on this planet from the beginning. Horrible diseases, mutilating accidents and injuries, wars by the thousands and all their horror, the utter injustice which dominates life on this planet, the disappointment and terror consequent on growing old and dying, all these things have been man's lot."

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I fully agree and that is why the question is raised, this incident is just another in the cycle of life that has not been stopped, yet we see so many folks who IF THEY COULD- they WOULD Stop it,

yet according to most belief systems there is only ONE WHO CAN and we all know what the records shows in the last few 1000 yrs.

You asked the question: "Why blame God?" and you explained it in this way

"God is merely allowing us to live out the meaning, and to realize the responsibility of the gift and burden of free will."

The only problem i have with the "Free Will" theory is that the victims always seem to get the short end of the stick.

I hardly doubt that this little girl was considering while she was being "Entered" by this man

this man is only using his Free will and I need to "realize the responsibility of the gift and burden of free will."

You stated:

"I'd be willing to bet the murderer of this little girl was: out on parole, a known sexual offender, awaiting trial on an unrelated charge, has a long criminal record, was abused as a child, and/or some combination of these characteristics and more."

## and i could not agree with you more--

YOu continue to state:

"No, it's not God's fault. It's our own, for being such easily led, superficial, nincompoops!"

so would you include the Victims like this little girl in the "It's our own"

the reason i ask is because it appears to me and correct me if i'm reading your post wrong- you are blaming the victims --like the parents perhaps--- when you state: "we won't use our free will combined with common street smarts to protect ourselves and our children for this kind of animal? "

I mean they could have--- i guess made the little girl stay in the house all the time and that may have prevented her from being pick up, but we were discussing how God could watch this scene repeated so many times over just to prove a point AND TO WHOM IS THE POINT SUPPOSE TO BE MADE TO

since most folks are dead from 150yrs ago and do we know if they got the point of god wanting THEM to realize we need to be responisble with our use of Free will,

BUT WE all enjoyed reading your thoughts on the issue

james and crew

JT

ISP says:

It depends what your idea of god is. If you believe that he listens to your every word at night and watches your steps, is all seeing.....all powerful....it is difficult to reconcile that while he is so attentive to you it is at the apparent expense of others

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it seems like everyone here at the house agrees with you on this point, but would you agree that most belief system that are based on the "bible" teach for the most part what you have stated-

i mean --think of all the folks with the 23rd Psalms on their car bumper or folks who oppose abortion on the grounds that god knows the child and is concerned- and the list goes on and on where folks who believe in the bible view god almost exactly like you describe, they refer to having a "Personal" relationship, one on one,

now that sounds like some serious attentiveness on the part of the divine one

your post was food for thought

JT

crazy says:

Hours upon hours of entertainment!

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i can't think of the guy who said it but it went something like this ( i know you guys will correct me) smile

we are like wonton flies to the gods who use us for sports-0-

Ok guys -- what is the exact statement smile

Francois

Hi James and Crew.

No sir, not a bit of it. I'm not blaming the victims, not in the least, not one particle.

I am blaming US. All of us. We have sat complacently and allowed the bastardization of our criminal justice system by the left. We have made crime pay in this country. We are so burdened by crime that the chances now are pretty good that any given criminal will not ever be caught, much less prosecuted, and even less than that convicted.

I will give you one example that should serve. And I only have to say the name for you to understand: O.J. Simpson. A perfect example of what's gone wrong with our legal system.

And the jury selection process. When was the last time you saw a person who could actually THINK selected for a jury. Who sits on juries usually? Retired janitors, cafeteria workers, union stewards, ex-state workers, bored housewives, taxi drivers - all of which represent legitimate employment, but they are not the quality minds one needs to understand the complexities of DNA matching. I would want to see - on any jury emplaced to decide my fate - computer programmers, doctors, chemists, salesmen, corporation executives, and the like. Lawyers don't want people on juries who can think. They want people on juries whom they can instruct WHAT to think.

I really wish I was able to be in your living room right now and participate with you all in this conversation. It must be as fascinating as it is sickening. But thanks for letting me take part in absentia like this.

Cheers folks, my heart is with you.

Francois

A Question to All Believers in God???

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