I FEEL so bad!!!! (page 4)

SYN

What this boils down to is, you shouldn't keep an animal in your house. That is why I'm against pets too. This is done to horses and various other animals too - horses can get really violent when "unfixed". Do horses and cats and dogs have a choice in this matter? Nope. I suppose this is an old argument, and a pointless one. Until human in general learn to leave nature in nature, this will ALWAYS be a problem.

How would all the woman advocates on this thread like to have their reproductive tracts removed so that they would be more "docile"? Would that be right? Would you neuter your own children? Cats are mammals too, and they feel stuff, although admittedy sex is no fun for kitty.

This still doesn't make it right to leave kitty unneutered so he can go make 10,000,000 other kitties. Get a vasectomy at least, geesh.

Perhaps you COULD move into the "world" of the feral cat. Check out empty lots, abandoned buildings, and dumpsters behind restaurants. There you could experience the "joy" of the unneutered, unfettered feral feline.

I'm strongly against domestication of any animal - I believe it is an animal's right to be free. We cannot have double standards when it comes to the freedom of our children and the freedom of the animals we share this world with.

Yes, it's not fun for cats to have sex, but the only reason there are feral cat colonies is purely because we domesticated them in the first place. I personally would never force bondage on any animal - I wouldn't be able to stand the bad feelings etc.

If you have known what it is like to be absolutely controlled and caged in, then you will appreciate freedom the way I do. This is a significant part of my world view.

It is simply sad that this sort of procedure has to be performed in order to control our feline friends. How I wish that we never domesticated cats in the first place. But sadly, history cannot be undone. Maybe one day with the advent of cyber furry friends there will no longer be a need for this sort of thing, and then everybody will be happy, but up until that point, I will never have an animal of any sort in my home.

SpiceItUp

Hey SYN---have you and Moe talked about her little kitten? And how she plans on neutering it as well.

not trying to start something but I feel it is a legitimate question.

Spice

RedhorseWoman

I'm strongly against domestication of any animal - I believe it is an animal's right to be free. We cannot have double standards when it comes to the freedom of our children and the freedom of the animals we share this world with.

Yes, it's not fun for cats to have sex, but the only reason there are feral cat colonies is purely because we domesticated them in the first place. I personally would never force bondage on any animal - I wouldn't be able to stand the bad feelings etc.

Well, unfortunately, various species of animals HAVE already been domesticated, and they cannot live in the wild. So, unless you advocate the mass slaughter of all domestic animals and figure out a way for humans to go back to a hunter-gatherer society, we have an obligation to care for those species that are domesticated.

Actually, the only reason there are feral cat colonies is NOT that they are domesticated, but rather than humans have abdicated their responsibility to care for them. They are forced to try to eke out a living for themselves because humans have abandoned them.

As far as bondage is concerned.....well, I can only go by my own experience, but I have never forced bondage on any of my animals....especially the cats. The three ferals that I took in CHOSE to live with me.....literally. Two of them, in particular, stood at the dining room door and yowled to be let in.

They can leave if they choose to do so. So far, they have chosen to remain with me. They are friends....as are all of my animals.

BeautifulGarbage

Syn,

First off, animals and humans are not equal. I had animals and I've have children. Believe me! Animals are MUCH EASIER to care for!

I'm strongly against domestication of any animal

Um.....I think that CAT has been let out of the bag on that one.

Andee

SpiceItUp

RHW----I ageree....all the cats I have ever had...I have had an incredible bond with....they follow me to no end. Cats are definately animals that I feel choose their owners....if they dont like them they move on.

For the record----- I am a huge animal lover. I cannot stand to see animals caged, abused, slaughtered and in fact this thread is giving me part of the strength to go completely vegetarian (right now I dont eat red meat or fish). That is why I even started the thread---because I felt bad but in the long run I knew/know it will be better for Onyx. Funnie part is that I was telling a friend that my cat was having surgery....they looked concernd and I told them that it was a neutering and they wanted to laugh it off as not that big of a deal. This kinda upset me as yes it is a big deal. Anyway, my cat is extremely well-loved and cared for and thats the way HE likes it. He tells me when he wants attention (as most cats owners will attest to) and he tells me what he needs when he needs and I dont hesitate to give it to him. We communicate and he understands everyword I say. How else can you explain that he is waiting by the door for me right around the time I get home from work---its because I tell him.

OK---enough of my rant as I know noone is even challenging that I love my cat but I felt I needed to say it nonetheless.

PS----what about dogs---most of them cannot fend for themselves without an owner---any thoughts

RedhorseWoman

JMHO, but I think both dogs and cats have struck a bargain with humans.....especially in the beginning.

They wanted a reliable source of food, some warmth from the fire, and protection. They offered companionship and protection in return (or in the case of cats, vermin control), and they were allowed to stay.

Dogs are also pack animals, and they tend to think of their human family as their "pack".

SYN

JMHO, but I think both dogs and cats have struck a bargain with humans.....especially in the beginning.
They wanted a reliable source of food, some warmth from the fire, and protection. They offered companionship and protection in return (or in the case of cats, vermin control), and they were allowed to stay.

So, in order to have warmth and food, you lose your balls/ovaries. Nice.

siegswife

Don't feel too bad. Mine has been balless for about 6 years now and he's still demanding, domineering, and cranky...just like the rest of 'em!

Oh...you were talking about a cat!...nevermind...LOL

SYN

What I really meant to say is,

1. There is no "trade". Dogs hang out with us because they perceive it as an advantage, and later on, because they love us. Simple. Then we remove parts of their anatomy to "calm them down", i.e. modify them for our purposes.

2. Modification of any living creature just to suit the purposes of a human is wrong.

3. There are many domesticated animals which are being modified without their consent.

4. There is no easy way to solve this problem. I understand that I have no power over other peoples' animals.

5. When you treat a living creature like a possession, then that is wrong.

6. Feral cats etc ARE a problem - but vasectomies are an effective solution for caring owners. Whether your tom gets aggressive is another issue entirely.

7. My main point is, the animals have this forced upon them. They did not ask to be born. I have no authority over the "possessed animals" of other people, so I don't fret about this, but that is also the reason I will try my best never to have pets.

8. Essentially, if you're not going to modify your own children, then why have the double standard of modifying your pets? They have feelings too.

9. Vasectomies are the best compromise, purely because there is no removal, just a tiny snip that solves the problem and no noticeable difference apart from infertility. This is the smallest animal modification I can bear to undertake.

These are MY views - other people will have different views. This post is not meant to offend, and I don't have pets, so I can't possibly relate. But these are just my feelings. We do have a problem with this situation - there is no easy way out, but that doesn't make animal modification right at all.

Just my thoughts

SpiceItUp

Ummmm SYN---you never did answer my question----

please reread my second-to last-post-- thank you!

I FEEL so bad!!!!

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