I FEEL so bad!!!! (page 5)

RedhorseWoman

Syn, I'm just wondering if you feel that female cats should be left intact? And, if so, have you ever lived with a female cat in heat? Many times, if a female goes into heat and is not bred, she will continue in heat with dire consequences to herself. If she breeds, she then risks all the complications of pregnancy and birth, and can produce at least three litters of kittens per year.

Unless there are homes available for those kittens, they will either be "put to sleep" or will have to forage on their own and face all of the dangers out in the "world".

Sexuality to cats is not really an issue. A vasectomy for a cat that will leave him infertile but still responding to hormones is not really fair to him or to his people. You will have a cat that constantly fights, constantly sprays, and is quite likely to be aggressive--not only to other cats, but also to humans. I think that a vasectomy is pretty much a death sentence for most cats.

Anthropomorphizing a cat's feelings is not exactly the best way to go. I've had unneutered cats when I was a child (speutering was not considered necessary back then). I remember seeing my cat come home with half his ear ripped off, and bearing various gashes and cuts. He was unpredictable towards humans, and he didn't live long. Conversely, the neutered males I have now are happy, playful, affectionate, and live long, healthy lives (one lived to be 22). I never saw them mourn their "manhood".

BeautifulGarbage

Syn,

I understand you have a point of view that is, well, for the most part, unusual. You certainly have not offended me, and I don't think anyone else, in any way. To disagree is one thing, but to offend to quite another .

Since we cannot reverse the domestication of animals, let's not argue that anymore. Though my dogs did,(they are now deceased) and so did my horses, have some the instincts left over from their wild ancestors, they certainly could never fend for themselves.

So, how do we cope with the explosion of unwanted pets, AND since so many of us have animals as pets, make them more amiable to living with humans. Spaying and neutering has been one solution. Now, I have a hypothetical question for you. If a pill, or some sort of drug, could be developed that would solve both problems would that be acceptable to you? Granted, it would only be temporary and regular doses would have to be given, but results would be the same. The animal's behavior would be altered to be deemed more acceptable to humans. I know you don't think people should have animals as pets. But we do, so would this type of treatment be tolerable in your opinion?

I'm honestly curious as to your thoughts.

Andee

MrMoe

Well, when I get my cat Grunt fixed I will do with him like I do with all my male cats -- have his lil tubes snipped, but I am gonna leave the manhood very much attached. Why mutilate his little body this way? If he decides he wants to be a crazy man and pee pee in the house then he can pee pee outside as I have no tolerance for and animal that uses my home as a toilet (or scratching post.)

Would you neuter your children? Vaccination is a little scar, but full-on neutering is a rather drastic modification of an animal for our own purposes. Far better to do a kitty vasectomy (just tie the little tubes, don't SEVERE them), then there is no guilt. Of course, the cat will remain a "man", just an impotent "man".

Kisses,

moe

SYN

BG: You would still be modifying the behaviour of the animal to suit your needs, but that does seem a bit better than a full on removal of body parts.

Essentially the problem here is that my view is drastically different from the views of most people, so let's not argue about this anymore OK?

RedHorseWoman: Female cats can also be snipped and not given full-blown hysterectomies (is that term applicable to cats? I'm sure it is). At the end of the day, I'm not against giving an animal a better life - what I am against is MODIFICATION see! That is why I have trouble with this sort of thing, and as such will strive never to have pets so that the issue is never placed on my shoulders. However, people who do have cats surely have to make their own decisions in this regard, and nothing I'm going to say here will convince others what to do or what not do do, so let's drop it...I have my views, you have your views. That's all there is to it really.

As long as the feral population stays down, I suppose it's an acceptable compromise, but still, what do you think of the core issue of removing bits of an animal's body? That is mainly what I want to know.

Spicey: I believe your question has been answered LOL

BeautifulGarbage

BG: You would still be modifying the behaviour of the animal to suit your needs, but that does seem a bit better than a full on removal of body parts.

Okay, Syn, I won't bug ya anymore after this

I just wanted to make a point. You have been comparing having pets to having children, or people if you will. However, we give children, and people, medications all the time to modify their behavior to make them more acceptable to society. For instance, the child that has been deemed Hyperactive may be given drugs to calm them down and help them concentrate. Plus, it make them easier to live with. But, who is to say that Hyperactivity isn't something that isn't NATURAL to some kids? It is society (people) that has deemed it unacceptable. Granted this done is for the long term welfare for the child and their ability to function "properly". Just like the drug that would prevent domesticated animals from behaving in ways that most people find unacceptable and detrimental.

This has been a very interesting topic.

Andee

SYN

Andee: Such a thing is already in the prototype stages for dogs - it is a tiny chip that you can insert between the shoulder blades of a dog and it released controlled doses of a coctail of hormones to control the dog's behaviour.

One wonders if the Gubments don't already have this technology and are actively using it. You'd never know if they implanted it deeply enough.

Don't even get me STARTED on controlling the behaviour of children who are supposedly "hyperactive". Hey, in Kindergarten (I believe this is the American word for nursery school), they said I was stupid AND hyperactive, because I couldn't do the little coloured block exercises, so they kept me behind a year.

When I hit school, I almost skipped a grade, and was always at the top of my class, and today I can sit behind a computer and write code for 6 hours at a stretch without a break.

They were so RIGHT about me being stupid and hyperactive y'know!

All parties in this thread, it's been a good read, keep it up.

SpiceItUp

Spicey: I believe your question has been answered LOL

Thats a cop-out if you ask me...

BTW---- .02 more from me------ isnt snipping their tubes a form of modification?

and Moe---just curious---what vet do you know does that procedure?

Edited by - SpiceItUp on 20 July 2002 14:27:46

SYN

Spicey, that modification is extremely small and has no side-effects to the animal, unlike the modification I am against. It is more like getting your ears pierced than having sexual organs removed, see?

jgnat

Hey, Spice, if it makes you feel any better, I will tell you about my late neutered boy cat - Jesse. A siamese cross, he was bigger than all the lapdogs in the neigbourhood. And just to prove it, he would regularly beat them up.

My daughter really wanted a dog, but I hoped Jesse would do. He almost succeeded, learning to Sit, Lie Down, and Shake a Paw. Unlike a dog, however, he would not perform without a suitable reward in evidence. When I allowed our Huge and Happy German Shepherd to join our home, Jesse took it in stride. A few swipes across the dog's nose, and they had everything settled who was boss. And Jesse endured the butt sniffing and body checking with equinamity.

Jesse was a great friend. Sorry he is gone.

My opinion, neutering is not the end of the world for a cat. Now cut out mealtime... that is another story!

SpiceItUp

no side-effects to the animal

Actually---IMO---the side affects are the same---they are unable to reproduce--doesn't matter if you cut it or remove it--the end-result is the same-the animal loses its reproduction abilities.

((((jgnat)))) sorry about your "friend" Jesse..... I know what its like to lose an animal.

Spice

Whats you name mean?

I FEEL so bad!!!!

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