: Anyone have any ideas on this. Thanks
Yes. If you're going to read fiction, at least recognize it for what it is.
Farkel
Is There a HELL ??
by 67mustang 49 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Bleep
I do agree with the statement you made, "When Christ returns, the mortal population will be those not called to judgement."
That goes along what I have been typing that being mankind has to be judged while being perfect. Those that are mortal die real fast being imperfect.
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Bona Dea
People from various denominations find it difficult to worship a vengeful God who incinerates sinners. "People want a God who's warm and fuzzy," says Jackson Carroll, professor of religion and society at Duke University's Divinity School.
I feel that statement says it all!!! It all goes back to what people WANT to believe and people will ALWAYS try to interpret the bible to suit those WANTS. BUT if you are going to claim to be a bible believer, then you should believe what the bible teaches....and it does teach about a fiery place, an eternal fiery place, where there will be torment. There is no changing these words; it's all greek (pun intended). Look up the words in your little NWT greek interlinear or at http://www.greekbible.com. They mean what they mean. Even when Christ uses the comparative word "Gehenna", the people with whom he was talking to then knew that the place he was describing would be a place that burned with an everlasting fire (Matthew 18:8, 25:41).
Bona
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Bleep
What Kind of Place Is Hell?
MILLIONS of persons have been taught by their religions that hell is a place where people are tormented. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, "The Roman Catholic Church teaches that hell . . . will last forever; its suffering will have no end." This Catholic teaching, the encyclopedia goes on to say, "is still held by many conservative Protestant groups." Hindus, Buddhists and Muhammadans also teach that hell is a place of torment. No wonder that people who have been taught this often say that if hell is such a bad place they do not want to talk about it.
This raises the question: Did Almighty God create such a place of torment? Well, what was God's view when the Israelites, following the example of peoples who lived nearby, began to burn their children in fire? He explains in his Word: "They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart."-Jeremiah 7:31.
Think about this. If the idea of roasting people in fire had never come into God's heart, does it seem reasonable that he created a fiery hell for those who do not serve him? The Bible says, "God is love." (1 John 4:8) Would a loving God really torment people forever? Would you do so? Knowing of God's love should move us to turn to his Word to find out just what hell is. Who go there, and for how long?
SHEOL AND HADES
Webster's Dictionary says that the English word "hell" is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades. In German Bibles Hoelle is the word used instead of "hell"; in Portuguese the word used is inferno, in Spanish infierno, and in French Enfer. The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, translated Sheol 31 times as "hell," 31 times as "grave," and 3 times as "pit." The Catholic Douay Version translated Sheol 64 times as "hell." In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the "New Testament"), the King James Version translated Hades as "hell" each of the 10 times it occurs.-Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.
The question is: What kind of place is Sheol, or Hades? The fact that the King James Version translates the one Hebrew word Sheol three different ways shows that hell, grave and pit mean one and the same thing. And if hell means the common grave of mankind, it could not at the same time mean a place of fiery torture. Well, then, do Sheol and Hades mean the grave, or do they mean a place of torture?
Before answering this question, let us make clear that the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades mean the same thing. This is shown by looking at Psalm 16:10 in the Hebrew Scriptures and Acts 2:31 in the Christian Greek Scriptures, which verses you can see on the next page. Notice that in quoting from Psalm 16:10 where Sheol occurs, Acts 2:31 uses Hades. Notice, too, that Jesus Christ was in Hades, or hell. Are we to believe that God tormented Christ in a hell of fire? Of course not! Jesus was simply in his grave.
When Jacob was mourning for his beloved son Joseph, who he thought had been killed, he said: "I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheol!" (Genesis 37:35) However, the King James Version here translates Sheol "grave," and the Douay Version translates it "hell." Now, stop for a moment and think. Did Jacob believe that his son Joseph went to a place of torment to spend eternity there, and did he want to go there and meet him? Or, rather, was it that Jacob merely thought that his beloved son was dead and in the grave and that Jacob himself wanted to die?
Yes, good people go to the Bible hell. For example, the good man Job, who was suffering a great deal, prayed to God: "O that in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version] you would conceal me, . . . that you would set a time limit for me and remember me!" (Job 14:13) Now think: If Sheol means a place of fire and torment, would Job wish to go and spend his time there until God remembered him? Clearly, Job wanted to die and go to the grave that his sufferings might end.
In all the places where Sheol occurs in the Bible it is never associated with life, activity or torment. Rather, it is often linked with death and inactivity. For example, think about Ecclesiastes 9:10, which reads: "All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version], the place to which you are going." So the answer becomes very clear. Sheol and Hades refer not to a place of torment but to the common grave of mankind. (Psalm 139:8) Good people as well as bad people go to the Bible hell.
Source from the Watchtower Library.
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Bleep
And If you want to know about
GEHENNA(Gehen'na) [Gr. form of the Heb. Geh Hinnom', "Valley of Hinnom"].
This name appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and whereas many translators take the liberty to render it by the word "hell," a number of modern translations transliterate the word from the Greek ge'enna.-Mt 5:22, Ro, Mo, ED, NW, BC (Spanish), NC (Spanish), also the footnotes of Da and RS.
The deep, narrow Valley of Hinnom, later known by this Greek name, lay to the S and SW of ancient Jerusalem and is the modern-day Wadi er-Rababi (Ge Ben Hinnom). (Jos 15:8; 18:16; Jer 19:2, 6; see HINNOM, VALLEY OF.) Judean Kings Ahaz and Manasseh engaged in idolatrous worship there, which included the making of human sacrifices by fire to Baal. (2Ch 28:1, 3; 33:1, 6; Jer 7:31, 32; 32:35) Later, to prevent such activities there in the future, faithful King Josiah had the place of idolatrous worship polluted, particularly the section called Topheth.-2Ki 23:10.
No Symbol of Everlasting Torment. Jesus Christ associated fire with Gehenna (Mt 5:22; 18:9; Mr 9:47, 48), as did the disciple James, the only Biblical writer besides Matthew, Mark, and Luke to use the word. (Jas 3:6) Some commentators endeavor to link such fiery characteristic of Gehenna with the burning of human sacrifices that was carried on prior to Josiah's reign and, on this basis, hold that Gehenna was used by Jesus as a symbol of everlasting torment. However, since Jehovah God expressed repugnance for such practice, saying that it was "a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart" (Jer 7:31; 32:35), it seems most unlikely that God's Son, in discussing divine judgment, would make such idolatrous practice the basis for the symbolic meaning of Gehenna. It may be noted that God prophetically decreed that the Valley of Hinnom would serve as a place for mass disposal of dead bodies rather than for the torture of live victims. (Jer 7:32, 33; 19:2, 6, 7, 10, 11) Thus, at Jeremiah 31:40 the reference to "the low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes" is generally accepted as designating the Valley of Hinnom, and a gate known as "the Gate of the Ash-heaps" evidently opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley at its juncture with the ravine of the Kidron. (Ne 3:13, 14) It seems obvious that such "carcasses" and "fatty ashes" are not related to the human sacrifices made there under Ahaz and Manasseh, since any bodies so offered would doubtless be viewed by the idolaters as "sacred" and would not be left lying in the valley.
Therefore, the Biblical evidence concerning Gehenna generally parallels the traditional view presented by rabbinic and other sources. That view is that the Valley of Hinnom was used as a place for the disposal of waste matter from the city of Jerusalem. (At Mt 5:30 Ph renders ge'enna as "rubbish heap.") Concerning "Gehinnom," the Jewish commentator David Kimhi (1160-1235?), in his comment on Psalm 27:13, gives the following historical information: "And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom."
Symbolic of Complete Destruction. It is evident that Jesus used Gehenna as representative of utter destruction resulting from adverse judgment by God, hence with no resurrection to life as a soul being possible. (Mt 10:28; Lu 12:4, 5) The scribes and Pharisees as a wicked class were denounced as 'subjects for Gehenna.' (Mt 23:13-15, 33) To avoid such destruction, Jesus' followers were to get rid of anything causing spiritual stumbling, the 'cutting off of a hand or foot' and the 'tearing out of an eye' figuratively representing their deadening of these body members with reference to sin.-Mt 18:9; Mr 9:43-47; Col 3:5; compare Mt 5:27-30.
Jesus also apparently alluded to Isaiah 66:24 in describing Gehenna as a place "where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out." (Mr 9:47, 48) That the symbolic picture here is not one of torture but, rather, of complete destruction is evident from the fact that the Isaiah text dealt, not with persons who were alive, but with "the carcasses of the men that were transgressing" against God. If, as the available evidence indicates, the Valley of Hinnom was a place for the disposal of garbage and carcasses, fire, perhaps increased in intensity by the addition of sulfur (compare Isa 30:33), would be the only suitable means to eliminate such refuse. Where the fire did not reach, worms, or maggots, would breed, consuming anything not destroyed by the fire. On this basis, Jesus' words would mean that the destructive effect of God's adverse judgment would not cease until complete destruction was attained.
Figurative Use. The disciple James' use of the word "Gehenna" shows that an unruly tongue is itself a world of unrighteousness and that one's whole round of living can be affected by fiery words that defile the speaker's body. The tongue of such a one, "full of death-dealing poison" and so giving evidence of a bad heart condition, can cause the user to be sentenced by God to go to the symbolic Gehenna.-Jas 3:6, 8; compare Mt 12:37; Ps 5:9; 140:3; Ro 3:13.
The Biblical use of Gehenna as a symbol corresponds to that of "the lake of fire" in the book of Revelation.-Re 20:14, 15;
Source from Watchtower society. Have a wonderfull day!
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gumby
Gee wiz ....Eternal Torment sounds fair to me.......don't it you? I mean think about it.
God makes man, and foreknows he will fail and end up in a fiery place for eternity.......he had to make a place for sinners too. All except for the few who believe he sent his son to have him killed so we wouldn't end up in hell will live happy. For those who don't get to hear about his son cuz they don't live around this kind of stuff and talk will burn......cuz he's the "only way".
I mean, most people deserve eternal torment don't they? They inherited sin that they could do nothing about and they deserve to die.
Makes sense to me!
Gumby......from the smart ass class.
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Bona Dea
Bleep,
I've already read the big WTS write ups about why "common grave" is the appropriate translation for sheol and hades. I'm not talking about those words. I believe the bible supports the belief of a "state or place of the dead". I was referring to the words I showed you; eternal, everlasting, torment, fire, fiery. Look them up. The bible does support the belief of a fiery place of torment for those who are "sinners" and refuse to be any other way.
The "No hell" thing was the only thing I found appealing at all in WTS doctrine. No holidays (ugh), No competitive sports (ugh), No hell (hooray!!) Since it's the only thing you guys really have going for you, I suppose you need to do everything within your power to make sure it sticks!!
Gumby,
Does seem like a crappy thing to do, doesn't it? I mean, I do the same thing to my kids (sarcasm). I've told them a hundred times, if you don't do what I say, I'm gonna incinerate you in the big trash barrel in the backyard!!! Oh well, who said God was fair? Oh yeah, God did (or so the writers of the bible say he did)!! Well, in that case, he must be.
Peace....Bona
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outoftheorg
It looks to me like this. If we don't do and believe what these man made religious organizations tell us to do, we have 4 choices. We can just die and that is it. Or we can die and go to hell. Or we can if we please one religion go to heaven. Or if we please another religion we will live on earth for ever under the wbts JW's thumb. Well hell or living for ever as a Jw are both a form of hell. Burning forever in hell doesn't suit me at all. Living for ever under wbts rule is a terrible scary thought. So given the option I think I will go for that go to heaven thing. The next best would be to just die and get it over with. On second thought there are some religions that think we come back to earth after death, as another person to give another try at getting it right. But then you got those damned monkeys or sacred cows to contend with.
Now if I could come back as FARKEL ? Hey I would try that in a New York minute
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Bleep
Bona Dea said, "The bible does support the belief of a fiery place of torment for those who are "sinners" and refuse to be any other way."
Me - I am sure you can supply those scriptures.
Me again - No Symbol of Everlasting Torment. Jesus Christ associated fire with Gehenna (Mt 5:22; 18:9; Mr 9:47, 48), as did the disciple James, the only Biblical writer besides Matthew, Mark, and Luke to use the word.
Bona Dea said, "The "No hell" thing was the only thing I found appealing at all in WTS doctrine."
Me - The other things like holidays were created by man and not Jehovah. All Saints day has been created as a day to celebrate Satan. Since that day is appealing then maybe the hellfire is too.
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COMF
a fiery place, an eternal fiery place, where there will be torment. There is no changing these words
Bona Dea, please wipe your chin. You're drooling on the board.