Is There a HELL ?? (page 4)

Bleep

Go back to my Gehenna post. The deep, narrow Valley of Hinnom.

Excuse me? If you think I am one of those Christians who get off on this kind of thing, then you are sadly mistaken. I am not even a Christian...so I'm not here "preaching" hell-fire and brimstone. I'm just saying, if someone is going to put their faith in the bible then they should believe what it really says and not what they want it to say. The title of this section is bible research and I was just sharing some bible research....Is that ok? And no drooling going on here....

Bleep,

Like I said, look up any place in the NT where the words everlasting fire, eternal fire, eternal torment, everlasting torment are and you will find that that is what the original words say. You want me to point to the scriptures for you? Do you not have a NWT with that little index in the back that lists all the different words in it? If so, then look the words up yourself and cross reference them in the Greek Interlinear. Matt 18:8, 9; 25:41; Mark 9:43,45,47,48; Revelation 20:10 are a few good verses with which to start. Eternal torment: Rev 20:10,"And the devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (compare to Matt 25:41) Look up the words in greek! They mean what they say. Notice the name of the place where the devil and his minions are hurled, "the lake of fire". The lake of fire which also just happens to be the name of the place where those whose names are not found in the book of life will experience the second death (Rev 20:14,15)...doesn't sound like annihilation to me. Jesus does describe a fiery place where sinners will go and likened that place to Gehenna. That place is the lake of fire. Bottom line. If you want to believe otherwise then do so.

Bona

Bleep

Bona Dea wrote, "The lake of fire which also just happens to be the name of the place where those whose names are not found in the book of life will experience the second death (Rev 20:14,15)...doesn't sound like annihilation to me."

Me- That second death is everlasting cut off. No way of coming back from the dead. Sounds like annihilation to me. And that is coming from a Jehovah's Witness.

simwitness

I have posted this before, and will post it agian, since it seems relevant...

One of my favorite quotes, and this sums up my feelings on the matter entirely:

I consider myself in the hands of my Creator, and that he will dispose of me after this life consistently with His justice and goodness. I leave all these matters to Him, as my Creator and friend, and I hold it to be presumption in man to make an article of faith as to what the Creator will do with us hereafter. --Thomas Paine

Dismembered

Re: Is There a HELL ??

Hell No.

Bona Dea

And that is coming from a Jehovah's Witness.

Oh, ok. I didn't know that. Well, if that's the case, I must be wrong!!!. I forgot my place. It momentarily slipped my mind, that JWs are the only ones who can truly understand and grasp the meaning of the bible:

Watchtower 12-1-1990: "Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus' ransom, the difference between God's organization and Satan's, nor why God has permitted wickedness."

Watchtower 7-1-1973: "Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred word, the Bible, is not a sealed book."

Watchtower 10-1-1967: "Thus the bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, NOT to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the bible."

I didn't realize I was dealing with a real live Jehovah's Witness here....(trembling). I'm outta here. I leave you with your delusions of grandeur.

Bona

Edited by - Bona Dea on 22 July 2002 14:29:53

Bleep

Bona Dea wrote, "Oh, ok. I didn't know that. Well, if that's the case, I must be wrong!!!. I forgot my place. It momentarily slipped my mind, that JWs are the only ones who can truly understand and grasp the meaning of the bible:"

Me - I never said JWs are the only ones who can truly understand and grasp the meaning of the Bible. But it does help.

NewWay

Hades "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither did his flesh see corruption." - Acts 2:31 - Authorised Version (AV).The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) properly translates the word, which is rendered "hell" in the AV, as "hades"[1], while the New International Version (NIV) translates the word as "grave" - which is the basic meaning of the word. As observed by W E Vine (a well-known Greek scholar), the AV uses the word "hell" in some places where another word "ge'enna"[2] should be used. Thus, some people are confused as to what "hell" really means. Temporary death and eternal death In the New Testament (NT) scriptures there are two words used to describe two conditions of death. The first condition, called "hades" is a temporary death from which a resurrection is possible, and results from being a sinner as a descendant of Adam (Romans 6:23). The second condition, called "ge'enna" is an eternal death given to those whom God rejects by divine justice (Mark 9:47 & 48 - the original Greek word used here is "ge-enna"):

"For as the new heavens and the new earth I am making will endure before me, declares Yahweh, so will your race and your name endure. From New Moon to New Moon, from Sabbath to Sabbath, all humanity will come and bow in my presence, Yahweh says. And on their way out they will see the corpses of those who rebelled against me; for their worm will never die nor their fire be put out, and they will be held in horror by all humanity." - Isaiah 66:22 to 24 (NJB).

Often the word "ge'enna" is translated by some versions of the Bible as "hell" or "hell fire", but this can cause confusion if the same version translates "hades" as "hell." The use of terms like fire in conjunction with "ge-enna" are symbolic of total destruction, and have been used for illustrative purposes in the Bible (see Luke 16:14 to 31 where Jesus gives a parable to expose the greed of the Pharisees), with terms like "tormented day and night" (Revelation 20:10b) attached to show the utter hopelessness of ever being able to live again. God has never sanctioned torture, as it is not a thing that would even come up into his heart for consideration (compare Jeremiah 7:31b). He has always made death the final 'payment' for sin. In the book of Revelation the symbolic and permanent nature of the term "ge-enna" (where it is depicted as a "lake of fire") is described wherein even the intangible condition of temporary death (i.e. "hades" or "the grave") is thrown:

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:12 to 15 (NIV). Footnotes

1 "Hades" - Concerning this word as found in the Bible, Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old & New Testament Words (VINE'S - on page 518) remarks:

"The word is used four times in the Gospels, and always by the Lord, Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; it is used with reference to the soul of Christ, Acts 2:27, 31; Christ declares that He has the keys of it, Rev. 1:18; in Rev. 6:8 it is personified, with the signification of the temporary destiny of the doomed; it is to give up those who are therein, 20:13, and is to be cast into the lake of fire, ver.14."

2 "Ge'enna" - VINE'S comments on this word on page 542:

"GEENNA represents the Hebrew Ge-Hinnom (the valley of Tophet) and a corresponding Aramaic word; it is found twelve times in the N.T., eleven of which are in the Synoptists, in every instance as uttered by the Lord Himself."

The valley of Tophet(h) was a place where human sacrifices were made at one time, and became a place for unburied corpses (Jeremiah 7:30 to 33).

Copying/Printing/Distribution I'm happy for readers to make copies of this article in electronic/printed form as long as the whole article (including footnotes and any notices) is reproduced and not used as part of a commercial project. Web site address is http://www.semachiah.fsnet.co.uk

Bleep

NewWay brought out, "Often the word "ge'enna" is translated by some versions of the Bible as "hell" or "hell fire", but this can cause confusion if the same version translates "hades" as "hell." The use of terms like fire in conjunction with "ge-enna" are symbolic of total destruction, and have been used for illustrative purposes in the Bible (see Luke 16:14 to 31 where Jesus gives a parable to expose the greed of the Pharisees), with terms like "tormented day and night" (Revelation 20:10b) attached to show the utter hopelessness of ever being able to live again."

Me - Thanks NewWay, It shows some people do care. *sheds a tear*

Is There a HELL ??

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