Reparations & Protest

by Larry 64 Replies latest jw friends

  • jst_me
    jst_me

    I think maybe that the point is being missed here. The US was built on stolen land and exploited labor. The minority that holds the wealth are the direct beneficiaries of this explotation.

    Why shouldn't all of us be able to share in this wealth? These companies were built on the labor of the slaves, why shouldnt some of that be shared around now, esp if we all agree that it is wrong.

    Being Indian, I dont even want to get started on the subject of treaty violations......

    Maybe your family was not here to benefit from slavery, but our economy is built on lies and brutality (and we all act so shocked when we find out the bastard ceos have cooked the books...shame on us). I say share the wealth out....or just acknowledge that race matters in our country.

  • LuckyLucy
    LuckyLucy

    Peace

    Edited by - LuckyLucy on 16 August 2002 17:31:52

  • Larry
    Larry

    Crazy - There are thousands of additional problems with reparations. There is also thousands of counter points, but that's not going to stop the movement. There are also many more issue that demand redress, like discrimination towards women. And true, I can't think of a nobler issue than for the Native Americans! (oh, they did receive reparations, but not enough IMHO) But one of the main points w/ the reparation movement is to raise the consciousness of folks. The fact that you are talking about it is a good thing.

    To take this to another level -

    Ex-JWs think JWs are crazy, brainwashed, etc. Each feel strongly towards their position, each is right in his/her mind. However, that is not going to really change matters. Some folks will leave and some folks will stay. It's our hope, on this board, that some will see the BORG for what it is, but it's the BORG's hope that folks will leave this board or never visit it. Just as strongly as you feel against reparations, others feel strongly against boards like this one. It goes back and forth. We can only do what we think is right.

    Peace and Security - LL

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    There are thousands of additional problems with reparations. There is also thousands of counter points, but that's not going to stop the movement.

    And that's the problem. Even though it can be clearly shown that the idea of reparations being paid is absurd, unAmerican and unlikely ever to happen, the movement keeps on going. Raising "the consciousness of folks" is pointless if your argument is flawed to begin with.

  • Francois
    Francois

    NO reparations, NO how, NO way, NEVER.

    Here's just one reason among many. My family - on both sides - did not come to this country until well after the end of slavery. I don't owe anybody anything for any reason.

    As far as I'm concerned this is just another attempt for one large group of people to get something for nothing.

    REPARATIONS? How 'bout reparations to the rest of us for the undisputable, inexcusable fact that this very 15% of the population looking for reparations is doing 65% of the crime? All by themselves! And ruining our society while they do it.

    You want some money? Go work for it like everybody else.

    You really want a race war in this contry? Get this affront passed into law. You'll get your race war.

    If you want reparations for slavery, go get it from the people who sold your families into slavery in the first place: other blacks in other tribes in Africa - THE ONES WHO ARE STILL SELLING PEOPLE INTO SLAVERY TO THIS DAY. NOT US.

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge

    I wonder why no one is marching for the Africans currently being enslaved in Sudan today....oh, that's right no deep pockets.

  • Larry
    Larry

    FD - Sounds like a plan plan to me :)

    But the ugly fact of the matter is, we were striped of our heritage, ancestry, identity, etc so we would not know how to function in Africa. We are a people without a homeland to call our own. We have to assimilate to survive in the US at the expense of losing our ancestral heritage. As Malcolm X said "Negroes are America's problem." And as WEB Dubois said the greatest problem of the 20th century is the color problem. (this century too) Now that we are just as successful as the 'privileged' in some ways, folks what us to shut up, but that's not happening.

    Peace - LL

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Damn right, Francois!

    The effect of calls for reparation, "positive" discrimination and hate crime laws is to entrench in people the idea that blacks and whites are fundamentally different, that black people are victims of "the white man", that laws should be made distinguishing between people based on race, that black people aren't as good as white people and can't succeed on merit. None of these actions are likely to lead to a society where people "will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

  • Larry
    Larry

    Navigator - We are all victims. But I'm totally against victimization. If something goes wrong with ME, then It's MY fault, I take full responsiblity. I doubt you will hear me blame someone for my situation. But I can understand someone who can't shake the trama of being a victim - I feel for them and will try my best to help them.

    To refer me to anything the Jesus said is fruitless b/c i don't beleive anything he said was original. He just borrowed from other holy men.

    Peace and Security - LL

  • Analysis
    Analysis

    Let me say that what was done both to the Africans and the Native Americans was a horrible part of the American History. It was all of the Americas not just the US. And even to this day, many of their descendents suffer from what happened. One of the worst examples of the ill treatment was what Andrew Jackson's Administration did to the Native Americans.

    But, one must remember that most of those who came to the Americas to make a home for themselves, did so not as a privileged class of people, but most were forced from their countries because who they were are what they believed. Most hoped to have a new beginning here. Sadly a few decided to enslave others, but that was not the majority. Many came over as indentured servants, just to make and new start to this country.

    With that said, I know you didn't ask for comments, but I just want to ask a few questions to get your viewpoint. For the most part others have asked them. I think Crazy151drinker and I are on the same page on many of these points.

    Over 60,000,000 people have immigrated to the US since 1861. Many of the over 600,000 that came during the Civil War came to fight for the North. Most of those in the US today are direct descendents of these immigrants. What do you think they owe?

    Even for those who lived in the US before the war, many had no involvement in slavery. By far slaveholders were in the minority. Even my relatives, who lived in a slave state never, I repeat never owned slaves. They were small tenant farmers. What do they owe?

    Over 360,000 Union Solders died either by disease or by a direct result of the war. What do their relatives owe?

    Many of the Africans sent to the US were captured by other Africans and sold to the Slave Traders. If the Slave Traders had not received the support of other Africans, there would have been far fewer slaves in the New World. What is your organization doing to address those who benefited that still live in Africa?

    Several leading thinkers at the time wanted to repatriate Slaves to Africa. If they had been successful, would the average African American be better off today?

    What percent of African Americans can claim their forefathers were slaves held by US Slaveholders? Note I didn't say prove I know that can be difficult

    If you could identify who benefited from slavery, then I would agree that you have a rights in the US Civil Courts. I would even say that the statute of limitations should never expire. However, most if not all of the large slaveholders were totally wiped out in the war. Granted I think you may be able to identify banks, insurance companies or other large firms that may have benefited. But, with our modern day ownership of companies you would be taking money from many stockholders that had nothing to do with slavery.

    Throughout history man has found away to disgrace themselves in the ill treatment of their fellow man. I think everyone could claim that their forefathers were greatly disadvantaged by someone or some group of people. Everyone lives on land that was taken from someone. We who find themselves alive in the US in the year 2002 should be grateful. People in many parts of the world take great risks to have the opportunity we have.

    As to your point: "We have to assimilate to survive in the US at the expense of losing our ancestral heritage." That is true of everyone in the US or any country in this world. The Celts had to first bend to Roman Rule, then to Saxon Rule, then Viking Rule then to Norman Rule. But, that is what makes them British today. The language we use on this board is a direct result of this assimilation. I would say African Americans in the US have more in common with the vast hordes of immigrants that now make up the Americas then they do with their ancestors in Africa.

    Edited by - Analysis on 16 August 2002 15:44:20

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