Reparations & Protest

by Larry 64 Replies latest jw friends

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    LDH,

    If you look at my first post, you will see that I am 100% pro-indian. No one esle can hold a candle to their situation. They got screwed royally. But do you see anyone marching for the Indians??? NOPE. Even the MINORITIES dont give a shit about the Indians. Its 'Poor me, poor me, poor me'. You want to make a difference?? Get a job. Get a education. Do something with you life. I have no sympathy for some gang member sitting on his ass bitching about the system. There are a lot of Asian immigrants in central california and they BUST THERE ASSES OFF and doing something with there lives! They came from a WAR torn country!! You dont see them bitchin and whinning! You know why? Because they are to busy making a difference and making their lives better. Im tired of people bitching and bitching POOR ME, POOR ME, and you ask 'hey did you vote?'.....Uh No.........

    The day I see some Minorities Marching down DC saying "my house is on Indian land and I want to give it back " they will have my support. If they dont like it here then either GO BACK or CHANGE it! You make it sound like immigration is something new! When my relatives immigrated, they had no money and didnt speak english but they busted their asses and made it. And dont give me this WASP shit. Im white, am I a millionare? I get pulled over all the time, I dont drive a nice car, im scraping the barrel to make ends meet and pay for my education. Shit, I had to move back home becuase I couldnt afford to go to school and pay for an apt. Do you see me protesting?? Do you see me bitching? No, Im trying to make my life BETTER, I DONT HAVE TIME.

  • Francois
    Francois

    LDH - Like I said, you want reparations, go over to AFRICA and get it from the OTHER AFRICANS who sold your AFRICAN ancestors into slavery. And you want to get into the pockets of the people who are responsible for buying AFRICANS from OTHER AFRICANS? Go talk to the Dutch, who are responsible for buying AFRICANS from OTHER AFRICANS to work in the sugar plantations in the Carribean in the first place.

    But you leave my honkey ass out of it.

    I have enough of the product of my labor confiscated by the government to pay for people who keep popping out another increase in their welfare payments every 10 months and won't get up off their damn dead asses or stay out of jail long enough to support their families already. Pass this god damn reparations thing and I'm off to some other country where the government's got some fucquing SPINE.

    Here's the opinion of another person of color on the reparations matter That would be Michele Malkin.

    Thousands of aggrieved activists are headed to Washington, D.C., later this week for the "Millions for Reparations" march. The theme is: "They Owe Us." (Note from francois: I don't owe you shit!) "Us" means black Americans who allegedly endure lasting psychological and economic suffering as a result of their ancestors (or someone else's ancestors) being enslaved centuries ago. "They" means the U.S. government, which means American taxpayers, which means tens of millions of people who had nothing remotely whatsoever to do with inflicting such injustice on anyone.
    So what exactly do We Owe Them?
    Russell Simmons, a wealthy hip-hop music executive, is marketing the reparations gospel to black youths under the modernized demand for "40 acres and a Bentley." He's also using the movement to sell his own line of "Phat Classic" sneakers. Wearing Mr. Simmons' hip shoes, you see, will do wonders to ease the vestiges of involuntary servitude and colonization.
    Defense attorney Sam Jordan, one of the march's lead organizers, apparently thinks freeing former Black Panther Mumia Abu-Jamal the death row inmate found guilty in the violent 1981 murder of Philadelphia Police Officer Daniel Faulkner would balance the historical books. "The case of Mumia Abu-Jamal has much in common with the case of reparations for all the descendants of the sons and daughters of Africa forced into chattel slavery," Mr. Jordan inveighed at a press conference in D.C. earlier this week. "Mumia is indomitable, as is the spirit of reparations and the campaign for justice for the millions who yet carry the mark of the lash."
    Officer Faulkner died with a bullet to his brain and back, and Mr. Jordan has the nerve to rant about Mumia's imaginary lash marks?
    The gall knows no end. One class-action lawsuit filed in Brooklyn, N.Y., against Fleet Boston Financial, Aetna and CSX puts the reparations tab at $1.5 trillion in unpaid wages of slave labor. Others have priced the pain at $500,000 in special tax rebates for every black American in the country, or up to $8 trillion.
    A year and a half ago, when this self-pitying business of slavery reparations first took off, I whipped out my own reparations calculator. I urge others to do the same, and start clamoring for your own personal payoff:
    My ancestors from the Philippines were enslaved by Spain and forced to build and man the galleons that brought Hispanic explorers to America. During World War II, my relatives were subjected to extreme physical and economic oppression under Japanese occupation. During the 1920s, the states of California and Hawaii imported 50,000 laborers from my ancestral homeland to toil on American farms. Filipinos also worked on agricultural fields in Oregon, Washington, Arizona and Montana. In addition, my people built levees in the San Joaquin Delta and slaved away in fisheries and lumber mills up and down the West Coast in horrid conditions.
    During that time of servitude, Filipinos faced rampant societal and governmental discrimination. They were barred from voting, owning land or starting businesses of their own in California. Anti-miscegenation laws in 16 states kept my ancestors from legally marrying white women. Until 1947, it was illegal in California for Filipinos to marry whites. In Alaska, cannery workers from the Philippines were segregated and barred from many establishments that displayed signs like "No dogs or Filipinos allowed."
    Crunching the reparations numbers, every American of Spanish descent owes me $514,000 plus compound interest. Adjusted for inflation, every fellow countryman of Japanese descent owes $750,222. California residents owe my family an even $300,000. Alaskans, Hawaiians, Oregonians, Washingtonians, Arizonans and Montanans must pay $75,000 to atone. And anyone else white, black or otherwise whose family members ingested Filipino-harvested asparagus, peas, cauliflower, onions, tomatoes, grapes or fish, or who burned Filipino-cut firewood, or who lived in homes built of Filipino-sawed lumber from 1923-1947, can settle their debt by sending me a check for $999.99.
    As for Russell Simmons, you owe me, too. A free pair of your $65 Phat Classic shoes should cover my pain. I wear a women's size 6. No sneakers, no peace.

    You want a race war? You're gonna get one.

    Edited by - francois on 16 August 2002 19:34:26

  • larc
    larc

    Well, it seems to me it would be good, it we could promote tight knit families, and a pressure to achieve without the beatings. After reading Collen Powell's autobiography, I concluded that it was a close family and an emphasis on achievement that was the fountation for his success. I would say that this combination was an important ingrediant for Tiger Woods' success as well. There are probably many more examples of this, but those are the one's that come to mind.

  • LDH
    LDH

    Crazy I would ask that you go back and re-read my words without predjudice.

    ALL children deserve to have an outstanding childhood where they are nurtured, supported, and given the opportunity to let their creative spirits soar.

    And when they are not given that chance, I'm sure there is a good percentage of those that never get over it, and sit and bitch about it.

    I can understand that.

    Do you know why?

    Because I had YEARS of my life stolen from me by a cult. No matter how good of a human being I am now, I have still had a major chunk of my life stolen. So have most of you. That's why we are all sitting here on the internet bitching about that cult called the JWs, hoping we can rescue people from losing years of their life to that bullshit.

    Now, what if I lived in the hood and didn't have access to the web where I could share my past hurts, in a community of people who understand? Who would I talk to that could understand my hurts?

    Maybe, just maybe, I would self-medicate with a 40 oz while hanging on the corner talking about how the man is holding me down, and ride around with my homies engaging in self-destructive behavior if I'm latino or black.

    If I'm Indian, maybe I'll turn to alcohol as 50% of adults living on reservations are alcoholics.

    Did you ever think of it that way?

    Lisa

    (PS, I'm extremely politically active, and I'll just leave it at that for now.)

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    When they give back all their homes to the Indians (since they are built on Indian land) we can talk about Reparations........

  • gravedancer
    gravedancer
    Because I had YEARS of my life stolen from me by a cult.

    That has nothing to do with success in life...

    I know black JWs who have happy families and are well off financially. They are happy being JWs.

    The real secret lies in YOU. If you want success find it and earn it, if you want anything get it for yourself. Conversely, it's all too easy to blame everything and everyone else for our failures.

    LDH, I don't know you at all, this is a general comment...not directed at YOU but at what you WROTE.

    GD

  • LDH
    LDH

    (((((((((Francois)))))))))

    Ummmmm first of all I'm not black so it wouldn't be me you're referring to. My husband is black, however from what we know his family is Haitian. But we're not sure, really. We do know that his grandparents were slaves but were freed after 1865, Juneteenth.

    I'm sorry you think I want a race war. Sadly, you haven't listened. I've said three or four times it is not about race it is about socio-economics.

    I DO NOT advocate reparations from taxpayers.

    On the other hand, I would LOVE to yank every god-damned dollar from fradulent organizations like the Carnegie Institute.

    If the people who never had anything to do with slavery, ie, you and I, should not be paying for it then others whose families DID exploit other humans should not be benefitting from it.

    I believe at one point, 80% of landowners on the banks of the Mississippi were millionaires in the 1800s. They had access to the most fertile land. Most of their descendents are still millionaires today.

    AGAIN I say I do not advocate taking money from the average American Taxpayer. But baby, would I love to clean out the accounts of families who made millions and are still worth millions. I would donate it all to the Boys and Girls Clubs of America or some other worthwhile charity.

  • Peckerwood
    Peckerwood

    Debate is nice, but what does the law say?

    We all should know that most nation's codes of law have for centuries (even millennia if you consider ancient greek and roman law) precluded the punishment of children for the crimes of thier parents, or the wife for the crimes of the husband, or vice-verse, not to mention extended family. The only exception being if they had prior knowledge and were also found to be complicit or an accessory to the crime.

    In cases where damages are sought, as in this one, they can only be awarded from the property of heirs, if the original crime is prosecuted under the common law, at that time, and within any applicable statute of limitations, and only if punitive damages were awarded by a judgement in that case. Now we must determine if there was a crime commited (slavery was still not considered, by US federal law, to be a crime even after the Confederate states seceded from the Union.)

    President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863, as the nation approached its third year of bloody civil war. The proclamation declared "that all persons held as slaves" within the rebellious states "are, and henceforward shall be free."

    Despite this expansive wording, the Emancipation Proclamation was limited in many ways. It applied only to states that had seceded from the Union, leaving slavery untouched in the loyal border states. It also expressly exempted parts of the Confederacy that had already come under Northern control. Most important, the freedom it promised depended upon Union military victory. The confederates of course had years before seceded from the union, formed their own government with their own laws, which of course allowed the practice of slavery.

    So what made slavery illegal? Of couse the 13th amendment, but which one? Indeed, there were at least three 13th amendments that I know of. I know this is hard to believe but read on, then I invite you to go and research it yourself.

    The history behind this amendments adoption is an interesting one. Prior to the Civil War, in February 1861, Congress had passed a Thirteenth Amendment for an entirely different purpose--to guarantee the legality and perpetuity of slavery in the slave states, rather than to end it. This amendment guaranteeing slavery was a result of the complicated sectional politics of the antebellum period, and a futile effort to preclude Civil War. Although the Thirteenth Amendment that guaranteed slavery was narrowly passed by both houses, the Civil War started before it could be sent to the states for ratification.

    But the final version of the Thirteenth Amendment--the one ending slavery--has an interesting story of its own. Passed during the Civil War years, when southern congressional representatives were not present for debate, one would think today that it must have easily passed both the House of Representatives and the Senate. Not true. As a matter of fact, although passed in April 1864 by the Senate, with a vote of 38 to 6, the required two-thirds majority was defeated in the House of Representatives by a vote of 93 to 65. Abolishing slavery was almost exclusively a Republican party effort--only four Democrats voted for it.

    It was then that President Abraham Lincoln took an active role in pushing it through congress. He insisted that the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment be added to the Republican party platform for the upcoming presidential elections. He used all of his political skill and influence to convince additional democrats to support the amendments' passage. His efforts finally met with success, when the House passed the bill in January 1865 with a vote of 119-56. Finally, Lincoln supported those congressmen that insisted southern state legislatures must adopt the Thirteenth Amendment before their states would be allowed to return with full rights to Congress.

    The fact that Lincoln had difficulty in gaining passage of the amendment towards the closing months of the war and after his Emancipation Proclamation had been in effect 12 full months, is illustrative. There was still a reasonably large body of the northern people, or at least their elected representatives, that were either indifferent towards, or directly opposed to, freeing the slaves.

    So, now we know slavery wasn't a crime until the closing months of the civil war, and only adopted as such by southern states if they wanted to be represented in congress. By this time the practice of slavery had already been functionally obolished as the union armies advanced through the south, and they reestablished sovreignty.

    I showed you two of the proposed 13th Amendments, long before the Civil War, a Thirteenth Amendment had been proposed for an unrelated purpose--see the following site for this story:

    The Original Thirteenth Amendment: Titles of Nobility and Honour, An Essay

    My Opinion:

    It seems clear to me that the claim of some Americans decendant from slaves, that they are entitled to "40 acres and Bentley" are unfounded, and without merit, as no law was broken, that was on the books at time their slavery was in effect. The sooner people learn that they have to make their own way in life and stop looking for handouts or a free ride, the sooner they will prosper.

  • COMF
    COMF
    Everytime a 'Black' person stands up for a cause, folks want to shoot 'em down, put 'em in their place. It's cool, folks said the same thing during the 50's and 60's. It wasn't until recently that folks said "yeah, they had a point back then."

    This is sooo incredibly crock-of-shit. Talk about something you know a little about, Larry.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    Peckerwood, good post and excellent points. Sounds like it is written by an attorney

    BTW, welcome to the board.

    Lew W

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