jst2-thanks for answering my questions. it is obvious that you have a heartfelt desire to do the right thing.:) i wish my elders had been more like you, it may have made it possible to seperate myself amicably. i appreciate your straitforward explainations.-nate
In there no good in the WTBTS??? or ourselves??
by jst2laws 102 Replies latest jw friends
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jst2laws
Farkel,
Yes, thanks. I found this about May of last year, read it, printed it and studied it like a WT study ariticle.(not all habit are bad) Also read Ray's chapter on blood twice.
Now to my chief concern, the one I mentioned last night. I tried to e-mail you but your address is locked. E-mail me and let me know how to reach you about that concern.
jst2laws -
Farkel
jst2laws,
You can mail me at:
I don't know why this address of mine is locked:
but I'll find out and correct it.
Farkel
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jst2laws
To all,
In my second anxiety filled post to this board I said to I-Ching,I anticipate a beating. I try to see some good in all things. I appreciate the many things I have learned as a JW. I came from a religion that is at least as tainted in corruption and false teachings, even conspiracy to hide the truth as is also true of the WTBTS, yet I appreciate what I learned from both. Show me a perfect religion and I'm ready to jump. My faith is based in the Bible, which gives me appreciation for what I have learned as a Witness but also puts me at odds with the borg. Even if I am caught and expelled, I cannot deny that I have learned much from Jehovah's Witnesses. So I risk a beating from my brothers, as well as a 'crash course' from friends here. I'm not ignorant of the facts but expect disapproval from both sides.
Who well be the kinder?
_____________________________________________________________________I am still looking for good in everything, but I certainly didn’t get the “beating” I anticipated. I hope this will be my last post on this thread, but I wanted to thank you all for the kind dialog and stimulation. While I will not always be this active in participation I will be here learning and occasionally tossing in a thought.
When I feel up to it I have some other threads just wanting out. Thanks all.
Jst2laws -
larc
jst2laws,
You asked the question about your brothers back home and your brothers here as to "who would be the kinder?" I think you answered your own question, when you wrote that you "didn't get the beating I expected" from us. You see, you were taught that we are mean, hateful people set out to damage others. I think from your readings here and on other threads, that is far from the truth about us.
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TR
PromQueen,
Does JW look for the good in those who do not believe in what they teach? Do JWs look for the good in apostates? Let's see JWs lead the way into accepting others beliefs and faults and find the good in these people.
This is a good point. The WTS refuses to give credit to anyone or anything, unless it's going to further their cause. Really sad. It doesn't matter what anyone can say or do, since Jehovah is going to destroy all non-JW's.TR
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mommy
Jst2laws,
My brother my heart goes out to you. You are in my prayers.I am glad to hear that you will be sticking around, and look forward to your posts. I think that Larc has a point, I am considered Df by my family and there has been no formal announcement. I left quietly without reproof, but still the badge is there. I try not to talk about my beliefs to my family, I do not discourage my mom to not go. But I am still evil because I am an unbeliever. All I can tell her is that Jehovah will always be with me, and in my heart. The relationship I have with him helps me to accept them, and allows me to love them for doing what they see is right.
I understand the bonds you have still in the org. I praise you for staying in and enduring. I will not question your motives. I guess maybe I am not as strong as you, I can't overlook what I feel in my heart to be right. I can't sit through the meeting for the love of my family, how could I ever prove to them that Jehovah exists in my heart? I am guessing it may be because you are older and wiser, you lived your life for your family and your beliefs. I am just now embarking on my journey, I have alot of live to live(I hope) And I will do it with a clear conscience and peace of mind. Life is too short for turmoil. But don't ever think I don't know where you are at, I also feel this way about my mom. Without the org she has given her life and some of her family up for, she has nothing. She does not realize yet,that I am here for her and always will be, no matter what religion she practicies, I will always love her.
love and prayers just2laws,
wendy -
dshields1
It sounds to me like you are starting to understand the "double speak" used in the Watchtower organization. The society is very good at this type of yoyo effect. The only thing that I can compare it to would be the fact that while JW's in the 70's were being persecuted in Malawi for their beliefs (not buying a twenty-five cent political card) the same organization was allowing (and there is documentation to this effect) it's followers to bribe local officials in Mexico to show that they had already fulfilled their MANDATORY military service at the age of eighteen! The message being that duplicitious bribery is ok to shirk military duties but PUBLIC support of a political entity should be fought with our very lives. Not the governing body's of course but ours...the rank and file JW's. Of course a full press campaign resulted with all JW's fearing that persecution was coming and so everyone worked even harder than before to maintain their "spirituality".
One such recent display was the reference when being publicly "stoned" by the media for their stand on keeping a child molesting case secret (which resulted in some really serious problems as well as the resignation of a presiding overseer in Kentucky because he disagreed with the society's stance) the society made a reference to the Catholic priest and confession as being a sacred trust and likening that to a commitee's stance on privacy. In any other context they would be boiling this religion in oil for its own cover up of its pedophilic problems but because it suited the situation they used the Catholic example to their own ends.
"The ends justify the means." seems to be the motto of this group.
Do you remember when in 1975 Armageddon was being predicted and then it didn't come? Do you remember what was said as to why? The basic reasoning was that there was a difference in time between when Adam was created and the time that Eve was. That was designed to buy some time. HOWEVER, did you know that C.T. Russell used that very same argument to diffuse the failed predictions of 1914? I have documents to prove this.
I have only one questions to ask you: What does light have to do with darkness? All you need is your Bible and a willing heart and you will be fine. If you find other christian-minded ones along the way then that is great. The true mark of a christian is that of independence. Paul praised the Bereans for their being "more noble minded than others" because they didn't blindly accept what HE said as truth. They searched the scriptures to prove out whether it was truth or not. If it wasn't truth do you think that they would have said "Well lets wait on Jehovah to bring in New Light."? NO! They would have immediately expelled Paul from the christian congregation as an apostate.
Do you think it would be possible for a congregation to expel an elder from its midst for misconduct? No it isn't possible. He must be removed by another body or by the Governing Body itself.
First century christians were AUTONOMOUS! They didn't have to follow orders. Even Paul didn't command or bark orders but appealed to their senses as christians when he reproved them. There were times when steps had to be taken to preserve the cleanliness of the congregation but these were done so by the whole group and not by one or two.
There's an old saying and its true: The only thing worse than a lie is a half truth. Why? Because its harder to distinguish from the whole truth. Satan loves half truths. He loves to sow weeds among wheat because you can't tell the difference. Expose the fire of reason and logic to your religion and you will find what source it is from.
I trust you will make the right decision.
Yours in Christ,
Doug
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thresh1
Sir,
I find your attempt to reason away the lack of reason at the WTBTS sickening at best. I want to answer your question concerning who else teaches bible truths. The church with the most Christian members in the world is the Catholic Church. This is because people are given bible truths there that make sense. Further, the word Jehovah is not God's name and NEVER has been before it was printed in the king james bible. Your aid to bible understanding admits that this was taken from pugeo fidei compiled by raymundus martini in 1270 ad. What they fail to say is that if you read this work in whole, you will find that the author says that the father,the son, and the holy spirit are so one that if they had a common name you could bring the vowels from elohim and interject them into the tetragrammaton to come up with jehova. Christians from 33 AD have called God by the name of Yaweh and still continue to do so.The biggest proof is as simple as "ask a Jew". They will tell you. Jehovah's witnesses have always talked about the jews following the letter of the law. This they did in ecclesiastical matters as well.They should know, they have been worshipping him for a long time.There are huge amounts of written history to prove this. Further, the early church fathers, 100 to 200 AD wrote that to be called a Christian you must believe in the trinitarian point of view as this was taken from jesus words himself as he stood in front of the sanhedran coucil. "I and my father are one".If you wish to read Esubius's church history or ecclessiastical history it is available. You may say that these are pagan catholic works but i say to you that if this is true, why is he quoted many many times in your aid to bible understanding to support your viewpoint?In 83ad in the presence of the apostle John,a bishop(elder) said" wherever you find the bishop, there you find the Catholic Church".Catholic means universal)This rich history is hidden from JWS to keep them from knowing historical truth.I was lucky enough to have God show me the truth.Seek and you shall find...The truth will set you free. The WTBTS is a white marble pillar, full of dead men's bones and darkness.Blind guides, completely in darkness. The thing i must add is that the WTBTS has lied about it's prophecies while the bulk of evidence is staggering.Please do not try to make me feel good with uneducated, foolish,ineptitude.It will not hold up to reality.
D.T. PhD -
jst2laws
Dear thresh1
I appreciate your thoughts. But I am not here to defend the WTBTS, the Baptist or the Catholic Church.
There is fault to be found in all of them. My question was not ‘Is there no bad in the WTBTS’ but ‘Is there no Good in the WTBTS’. I see good and bad in all of them. I doubt God is satisfied with any of them. The only thing the WTBTS has over the Catholic Church is that it may have become as corrupt in record time. They both started out with good intentions and some good men but when ‘men dominate men’ it will soon become a disaster. God must be shaking his head.
Jst2laws