Farkel,
Similar histories! I’m about your age. Started out a very scared Baptist (fear of hellfire made me obsessive-compulsive but I got over it [knock on wood]) and became a JW at about sixteen. Pioneered and went to Bethel, twice. Personally I have had no problem with not having college, I hire and fire college graduates. But when I sent my wife to school I went through the first of many attempts to remove me as an elder. While this stand on education is one of our more embarrassing leaps into matters that should be left to the individual, at least they have been backing up on that one too. I have been at odds with the march-step mentality for 30+ years and have survived, but I admit I’m getting tired.
Thanks for your very kind comments
Jst2laws
In there no good in the WTBTS??? or ourselves??
by jst2laws 102 Replies latest jw friends
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jst2laws
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normie67
jst2laws
College is a real Hot button for me too!!!
I was in all the Dramas saying College is Evil, Now at CA and Dc 2yr Programs are ok!!!!!!!!!
whewwww!!!!!...getting tired myself Bro!!normie
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jst2laws
Mommie,
Thanks for the encouragement. I want to say I feel brotherhood here even though I’m still on the inside. I have a brotherhood on the inside too that I cannot take lightly. Yes, compared to you all we are self-righteous and judgmental, and have some very hurtful policies. But I still focus on the good things that originally brought me out of the Baptist Church to this association. They are still valid. But I wish so much the trend that started in the 70’s at Bethel would have come to full growth. I wonder if what Ray and others were doing back then was like Moses trying to right the wrongs for his people decades before it was time.
I wonder, if like Moses being brought back years later to lead the people, Ray will be around to finish what he started. If not, perhaps we will.
Your thoughts were very encouraging, wendy.
Jst2laws -
ozziepost
jst2laws: At the Sydney BBQ this great thread was discussed and the consensus was that you've selected a great name!
It seems to me that you have softened your approach somewhat in recent posts. Is this because when you first arrived you felt unsure of this place? I hope you can see now that the people who live here are generally quite a friendly, caring lot ready to open their arms in welcome of all.
I see that you agree that a debt of gratitude is owed to Raymond Franz. Many feel that way, too. You may remember that he considered the WTBTS not reformable. I mention this because you seem to hope for some kind of reformation to take place in the borg. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting! Best to let them be and move on. Jesus was not talking about an organisation when he replied to Peter's much misquoted question: "Whom shall we go away to?" not "Where else have we to go?" The answer was, of course, Jesus, the one who "The Way, The Truth and the Life".
Cheers,
Ozzie
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Pathofthorns
It's interesting watching how people seem to all go down that same path as they leave the religion, even if it is only leaving in their hearts.
Probably the most important advice I can give you J2L is to keep your thoughts to yourself at the moment with regard to speaking to individuals where u live. The most regrettable thing many of us did was to say too much and to feel we could somehow explain to someone in 10 minutes our reasons for doing what you are doing.
It's human nature to want to bounce thought and ideas off our friends, but until you get a good idea of how you feel about things and where you are going and how you'd like to go about it, it is best to just go about things as you always have. In a couple of months you will have a better handle on things and how you feel will change alot.
Most of us originally start out thinking that we can hang around for some sort of "reform". Reform is of limited benefit to those who will never leave the religion. But it is also like patching up a broken ship. The religion has always been reforming with the end result being that it will simply be another mainstream religion that has a few differences in belief (ie. good will live forever on earth).
Sure, some harmful policies will disappear like our stand on blood, disfellowshipping etc. but it will still be what it is and what it always has been- just another religion. And if that is what will make you feel good then by all means stick it out and wait for reform.
You mention that you are in your 50's like Farkel. Real reform remains a few years away until the old Governing Body members pass away, and in the meantime more time slips away.
Most here have chosen to just quietly fade away and get on with our lives. By keeping your status as a JW you can still associate with your old friends and carefully assist some when they are ready to learn the truth.
I wish you all the best, in what is i'm sure, a difficult time. Again, I suggest you just take the time to reflect on things before taking any sort of action as your thinking WILL CHANGE over the next while.
Path
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jst2laws
Unanswered,
"what is the point where the org. has gone to far? or is there even such a point?"You have come up with a good question. I have not set up boundaries yet for reasons I will explain below. But one thing I and 2 other elders on our body will not tolerate is hurting people. We are not in full agreement as to what is needless harm, but you all would be proud of these brothers. If this situation exists on many bodies of elders around the world than the WTBTS is about to loose its grip. But to explain why I have not defined boundary:
1 Before I realized they had gone as far as they had, they were already backing up. In only three years they have backed up on alternative work for military service, customs that are harmless although having questionable origin, and blood. The steps are far too small, but they are going the right direction. As long as this is the case it is difficult to give up.
2 I have been on the edge so long I always felt in the back of my mind that I would eventually get exposed as the decedent I am inside and thrown out before I would have to make that decision. Yet here I am. The CO wants me out as an elder but cant find a valid charge. This chapter isn’t finished. Maybe I’ll update you later.
There are so many situations that could end this tomorrow. I have my own conscientious decision on blood that I am teaching my family. I covered the DPA part in the service meeting and caused a stir. Even the elders were unaware they had to make decisions this time. My decision would shock most, and get me disfellowshipped. But what would it take for me to say I cannot stay here any longer and cautiously present a different point of view?
I will give some thought to this subject. I think it is worthy.
Jst2laws -
normie67
j2l,
I reaslly enjoy your responses, i believe most that read and respond understand our situations!! You are in a different position than I tho being an Elder, with much more to lose!! But both of us are trying to figure ....Whats Next??...How do we go about explaining where we are coming fromand where were going to friends and loved ones!!! Anyway keep upthe good posts and I think all here support Ya!!!normie
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jst2laws
Normie,
Thanks for the thoughts. Be careful bro. What you find here everyone needs to know. But water, even "life's water" can come at us so fast it could drown us. If you start feeling weary, email me. Back off for a while if you have to, then come back. I cant believe I could justify applying this, but Jesus said “I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present" John 16:12. I wonder how many people out there got too much and now they aren't here or there. Be careful and keep your mouth shut.
jst2laws -
normie67
j2l
Your thoughts and recommendations are well heeded!! I will in time email you privately!!
Thanks j2lnormie
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Farkel
jst2laws,
: I have my own conscientious decision on blood that I am teaching my family. I covered the DPA part in the service meeting and caused a stir. Even the elders were unaware they had to make decisions this time. My decision would shock most, and get me disfellowshipped.
I don't know if you've seen this before, but here is an excellent link to read about blood. It is well-researched, respectful and presents an excellent discussion of blood and how it relates to the Noachian Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant and the Apostolic Decree.
Farkel