Questions For The Skeptics (Unbelievers)

by Zechariah 46 Replies latest jw friends

Zechariah

I have announced I am on a crusade to encourage skeptics to think on the issue in a way they probably have never done before. I initially have made the mistake of cramming everything into one, two or three posts. This I should have immediately recognized is an impossibilty because what I have in mind requires a great amount of meditation to fu;;y comprehend. It should be taken piecemeal over a period of time. This is my first post with Questions for Skeptics. Please test my utterances to determine from what source they originate. (True or false)
Do not you believe in the power of prayer? Believers believe God that whatever we ask in his name we will receive. They use effectively prayer to summon supernatural help in time of need and to achieve righteous personal goals and prosperity. Also prayer for the believer is to offer thanks to the creator for his gifts.
Do you celebrate Thanksgiving? If so why?
Do you believe a law of reciprocity (reaping what you sow) exists? If so who or what enforces these laws?
Do you agree with the following concept?
Physical man and spirit man are two distinct entities integrated into one creature known as a hu/man or a man of the humus. Human is also known as earthling man. Both these distinct enities each in a beficial parasitic relationship with ne another. They ae housed in a body which is the vehicle for taveling through the earh experience.
They feed off each other in order to create life and all its experiences. Do you recognize what is being spoken of at 2 Corinthians as the physical (carnal) man vs. the spiritual man. The physical man ignores his spiritual heritage as a son of God in his likeness whereas the spiritual anccepts it and Godas his father.
Are any emotions positive or negative unique to the individual or are the shared universlly?It is a shocking fact that as Gods Little Computer People we are all connected together with all spirit creatures and God. It is on kind of a invisible LAN network that we all can access with the right clearances and passwords.
It is amazing how on Talk shows the whole world can tap into hurt, joy, or love being expressed. All emotions good and bad are out there invisible like radio waves. We receive the emotions we are tuned into in many ways. Can you see this is true? These emotions are all spirits having personality. I am certain this is why ancient civilization developed there were individual Gods for every emotion. In a sense there exists just that.
Thats plenty enough for now. Please exercise that open mindedness skeptics claim they have in abundance.
Zechariah
Edited by - zechariah on 22 September 2002 3:16:45
Edited by - zechariah on 22 September 2002 6:3:29
Edited by - zechariah on 22 September 2002 6:11:8
DanielHaase

Well, here's my quik response:
1. No, prayer has not helped mankind as a whole from what I can tell.
2. No, I don't celebrate genocide.
3. Not quite sure I agree with the concept of "spiritual being" and such. We are a part of nature with brings with it varying emotions, but I don't really consider that "spirit".
4. I recognize 2 Corinthians and the entire Bible as what it is- a man-made book. You can look at it as God-written or inspired, a book of philosphy and/or history, but to me and many others it mainly reflects the mindset and culture of those times, which wasn't exactly pleasant for women, slaves, etc.
5. Many emotions bind us together; we are social animals. You see it throughout nature.
6. Not quite sure about this one. Many have different definitions on what "spirit" means. Some do use it to the same extent as emotions, but it depnds on who you ask.
Of course, these are all opinions, all subject to change upon evidence. Maybe that's being open-minded, I dunno
pseudoxristos

Do not you believe in the power of prayer? No, not in the sense that some invisible being is going to listen and do something. Maybe, a believer will obtain some positive result but the same result could be obtained with positive thinking. I don't pray, seems pointless.
Do you celebrate Thanksgiving? If so why? Yes, Cultural requirement.
Do you believe a law of reciprocity (reaping what you sow) exists? If so who or what enforces these laws? No, but most decent people will try to help others who they feel are deserving. The opposite is also true. Most people will avoid a**holes. This is not really a law of reciprocity, but human nature.
Do you agree with the following concept?
Do you recognize what is being spoken of at 2 Corinthians as the physical (carnal) man vs. the spiritual man. The physical man ignores his spiritual heritage as a son of God in his likeness whereas the spiritual anccepts it and Godas his father.
No.
Are any emotions positive or negative unique to the individual or are the shared universlly?It is a shocking fact that as Gods Little Computer People we are all connected together with all spirit creatures and God. It is on kind of a invisible LAN network that we all can access with the right clearances and passwords.
The human experience is shared universally. All PCs running the same operating system don't have to be connected on a LAN to be able to responed in the same manner to the same data.
It is amazing how on Talk shows the whole world can tap into hurt, joy, or love being expressed. All emotions good and bad are out there invisible like radio waves. We receive the emotions we are tuned into in many ways. Can you see this is true? These emotions are all spirits having personality. I am certain this is why ancient civilization developed there were individual Gods for every emotion. In a sense there exists just that.
You don't need invisible spirits to explain human nature.
Zechariah

I want to thank my first replyers much for their responses. They raised issues I would like to clarify.
Are all things invisible a spirit.?
There is essentially no difference if at all between a spirit person and a spirit thing. We all for the most part attach physical characteristics to to spirits because we cannot accurate comprehend their precise nature.
The Bible in several ways cast light on the matter. One way is in Corinthians where it speaks of the things seen and unseen. The things seen are temporary and corruptible. The things unssen are everlasting and incorruptible. What science also now accepts is that things that truly cannot be seenlike time, space, thoughts and feelings are all not subject to any physical boundaries.
The Bible says for one thing God Is Love. He is its epitome. When anyone loves he is tapping into Gods spirit. Why it can rightly be said that physical characteristics donot accurately describe a spirit. The woman in the NT whose son had died and whose other son married the widow asked Jesus a probing question about the resurrection. She said in the resurrection to which son will the wife belong. She was told by Jesus that in the resurrection there will be no marriage. Those in the resurrection will be as angels. My inspiration is that he was definitely commenting on them becoming spirit beings.
As such they would no longer have any physical needs, discomforts or pains. The former things have passed away. Physical things are not a consideration for spirit creatures Making understanding the interaction between spirit beings more difficult to understand. If by nature they are incorruptible in what sense do they die but in a spiritual one. Therefore hell is a spirit condition resembling being everlastingly tormented without God who is love. What more of a hell could it be than live eternally without the love of God.
As I explained in the original post we are God;s Computer People. All things in our universe that are physical is the hardware and all things unseen (spiritual) is the software telling the Physical what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and even why to do it. The quality of our lives depend on us running the right software we access by belief.
Because of the spirit nature of thoughts, feelings, prayer, amd all forces like time, space and relativity. Regardless of what some believe they cannot be stored in the body. The brain therefore is not the storeplace for thoughts as the heart is not the storeplace for emotions/ Our body parts associated with these spirit things merely allows us a physical manifestation of these spirit things. They are hardware devices for again integrating our two beings together.
I make a plee to all skeptics that are willing to accept the possibility God exists and are not biased because of fear please read a eye opening book by Wayne Dyer called "You'll See It when You Believe It.
You'll See It When You Believe It: The Way to Your Personal Transformation
The account in the Bible of a man called legion provides another object lesson as to the nature of spirit things. We are told the man had a legion (many) demons that were driving him crazy. Certainly these were not demons in the sense of being persons.
Demons are any force (all unseen) that oppose the created purposes of God. One lesson it teaches us that many spirits can occupy or influence the same person as the same demon can influence or possess many people at once. Examples of mass possessions are like Hitlers hatred being passed on to in mass to the German people. Its a real eye-opener to correctly perceive the truth of mans life.
Please test all I have said to see if its from God (true)
Zechariah
Edited by - zechariah on 22 September 2002 7:47:7
Realist

hello Zech,
Do not you believe in the power of prayer? absolutely not! there is not the slightest evidence that prayer would cause changes in the physical world. i am sure they help the believing individual as sort of a placebo.
Do you celebrate Thanksgiving? No...its not a holiday in europe. however i celebrate christmas for social reasons.
Do you believe a law of reciprocity (reaping what you sow) exists? No...same as with prayers there is no evidence that would support this idea. of course if someone is always nice poeple will respond on average nicer to him than to a person that is unfriendly...but that has little to do with super natural powers.
Physical man and spirit man are two distinct entities: there is no evidence that spirits exist. neither insects nor apes nor humans have spirits. there are only chemical/electrical reactions no spirits.
Emotions: are common to most individuals (with the exception of mentally deranged people). similar to instincts they are 'implanted'. every normal person and animal will try to flee danger...this is not the result of any supernatural influence.
Realist
patio34

Hi Zechariah,
Very thoughtful post. However, in the 1st sentence there's a glaring misconception:
encourage skeptics to think on the issue in a way they probably have never done before
Since this is a board of ex-JWs, the vast majority have always thought the way you encourage, and have changed into being what you label "skeptic." I prefer to think of it as free thought, or independent thinking, or critically thinking.
Pat
Zechariah

Hi Pat,
Thanks for your comments. I'm sorry that I don't understand your criticism that what I said is a misconception. Certainly I was never insinuating there was by majority skeptics on this board. but I am continually amazed at the large number there are. I'm out to reach them if they are not too unreasonably entrenched. The evidence of the creator is beyond limit in creation. I can and will continually provide evidence of it that will be excepted with by anyone with eyes to see.
One evidence of creation versus evolution is the number of teeth humans have. If evolution is responsible with intelligent design how is it possible all people don't have widely varying numbers of teeth especially from different environments. I definately see that as evidence.
This for me is such fun...
patio34

Hi Zechariah,
Thanks for your reply. I meant the "skeptics" spent many years being non-skeptical. You said they had never considered all these things before--my point is that they had considered these--28 years in my case.
You mentioned teeth numbers as evidence of a creator. I have no specific rebuttal for that off the top of my head.
However, the general argument of complexity and adaptation seems to spring from "anything that complex and perfectly suited must have a designer or creator." What is being left out of the equation in the theists' argumentation is the supposed complexity and suitability of a vastly superior designer or god. If humans are too complex and suited to just appear, how is it possible that God could just appear or always exist, with no designer?
It seems to me that this rationale paints the creationist into the proverbial corner. That's just my 2 cents.
Pat
P. S. The issue that made me become a critical thinker was the dinosaurs and their significant carnivorous behavior. The JWs always said there was violence in nature because of Adam's sin. Then Isaiah assures us that said violence will be done away with in a paradise earth.
However, when did dinosaurs exist? After humans (i.e., Adam)? No, they lived and ruled the earth millions of years before humans. So, the violence was there long before any humans' alleged sin.
Additionally, Gen. 1:30 states that in the beginning all ate green vegetation. Patently not true. From the bacteria on up to the dinosaurs, probably half of them were eating flesh, not green vegetation. Of course, the writer of Genesis had no knowledge of dinosaurs and their vicious behaviors.
So my question to a Bible-believer (fundamentalist), is why is there violence in nature? To me, it gives much more evidence of evolution being the explanation, rather than a "loving" god, deliberately creating fangs, talons, parasites, and poisons so they could all kill or be killed. That gives evidence of survival of the fittest.
Realist

zech,
can you explai your tooth reasoning again ?
Zechariah

Realist.... OK
If everything is in gradually stages of development for millions of years adapting to their environments how can it be universally possible that all humans would share the same number of teeth if evolution was true?
Zechariah

Questions For The Skeptics (Unbelievers)

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