Questions For The Skeptics (Unbelievers)

by Zechariah 46 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Realist

  hello Zech.,

  i am sorry maybe i misunderstood you...but so far i read only your questions in the beginning and your explaination as to why we cannot understand how God came to be...the other posts were rebuttals that didn't add to the topic.

  see what i would like to witness is somehting like a spirit in action...something flying around etc. or a statsitic that would show that prayers do help (unfortunately yeru didn't come up with more details on this one study).

  also i am not sure what your other questions were supposed to proof?!

  have you ever noticed something supernatural...and if so what was it?

  i have to say i never experienced anything that would not be explained by mainstream physics respectively science.
• 

  JT

  the comment was made:

  "I will never accept anything as evidence that does not benefit me."

  This sound like the words of a white slave owner to his negro slave when he says:

  "Boy, I will never accept anything as evidence that (you are a man like me since it) does not benefit me."

  the poster clearly demostrated for all to see how facts and proof mean nothing, and this is why i say what i say he is no different from a JW whose mindset is "I don't care what you show me, proof, facts, etc, the wt still speaks for god"

  this type of mindset in which one loudly declares before even examining anything "I don't care what is says" is why all belief system suffer from the same problem
• 

  seedy3

  Zach,

  There is no proof, no evidence, for anyone not willing to accept it.

  How very true, Faith is all any religious one has to run on, Faith is only a feeling, not a fact. When you are working on a project, you have faith that you will be able to do it, Well that is confidence, but a simular term. It does not mean you will, it means you think or feel you will. the evidence that you did do it, is when you finish it. The same is true in the belief in a God, you have faith in that he or in some cases she, is real, but you will never know until you complete your project, i.e. life it's self. Now on a JW point of view, you will never know until you are resurected. But the project is not complete, so there is no evidence. Unless God him/her self wants to make an entrance and show us he/she is real then I would suppose that would put an end to a skeptics view.

  Until such time, I guess we have to wait and see.

  Seedy
• 

  Zechariah

  Rem,

  Your entire post has me ROTF.

  Nobody knows exactly how the first self replicating molecules got started. I prefer the honest approach (Not sure how it happened, but we're workin' on it) as opposed to the "goddidit" non-explanation.

  I am sure you're working on it. I'll see you in about 2 billion years and you wont be any closer than you are right now. Don't you realize what you're up against. All the greatest scientific minds in the world with the finest computer technology cannot intentionally replicate a process they claim happen totally by chance. Even if they could it would not prove it could happen without intelligence at work.

  Then too the problems just begin. It has to be demonstrated how simple life forms can progress to more improved and complex forms without intelligent guidance. Then too what created the environment this lifeform would need for survival. All things left to themselves without controlled maintenance deteriorate and die. Even if a simple lifeform could evolve on its own what would account for the reproduction process requiring male and female without supernatural guidance. The mental gymnastics people are willing to go thru to believe we are not creation are both vain and stupid.

  Remember the old explanation for rainbows? Goddidit... even says so in the Hebrew bible... but then this guy named Newton (not related to the biscuit)figured out that it was just refracted light - a naturalistic answer. No supernatural being necessary (Yahweh, in this case).

  Being cute doesn't add to your credibility in regards to rainbows. Are you insinuating Newton did not believe in creation? Are you likewise implying knowing refracted light makes a rainbow that the miracle of what a rainbow is is even remotely explained?

  In fact, even a child can create a rainbow. You see, the goddidit explanation is pretty much worthless, as far as explanations go.

  Stupidest thing I ever heard. A child can make a rainbow. Remember my example of men talking about their children saying look what I made. I do good work don't I. They didnot make anything. A child can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich too. That doesn't minimize the miracle of what went into creating the root ingredients that a child only has the most menial participation in putting together. Your lack of appreciation of Gods gifts is astounding. You should be very thankful God has agreed to rain on everyone. If I was God because of your attitude I wouldn't pee (yet alone rain) on you if you were dying of thirst. :)

  So far there is no evidence that a goddidit (that is, created life)... but we know it happened at least once in this universe - somehow... and we are here. Maybe we will find evidence for this elusive god (Yahweh, Thor, Vishnu, Dyonisus, all of the above?)someday, but today saying goddidit is just as plausible as saying smurfsdidit. The amount of evidence is equal.

  More stupidity. Creation and evolution are diametrically opposed concepts. Either somebody made it or it just happened. Lack of evidence for one is evidence for the other. Whoever created the universe must have the ability to do so. I don;t think smurfs foot the bill. In the creation theory there is only one hurdle to overcome. That is where the creator came from. If we learn from the object lesson of my PACman analogy PACman cannot have any comprehension about a Creator who lives outside the limits of the world he created and are not subject to its rules.

  But if you are truly interested, there is some interesting work going on right now by scientists who are trying to figure out such mysteries (just as rainbows used to be a mystery). Do some homework on the subject and educate yourself. You might just learn something! :)

  What made you think at all I was ever interested in a no God theory of life. NOT.

  I hope you don't mind if I turn you down on your offer to educate myself. I suppose the things you said it your post reflects the education I can look forward to. Thanks but no thanks. I rather stay stupid.

  Zechariah
  GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH

  Edited by - zechariah on 24 September 2002 2:21:31
• 

  Zechariah

  JT,
  
  You refuse to accept that all belief is a matter of choice. I am not by any evidence forced to believe a certain way. This being true the wise thing is only to believe only that which it benefits me to.

  Zechariah
• 

  pseudoxristos

  Zech,

  You refuse to accept that all belief is a matter of choice.

  I have to admit that sometimes I have a problem with the uncertainity of the origin of life. This seems to be the one question that does not have a satisfactory answer without a creator. But, on the other hand the theory of Creation has its own problems. I (must) choose to believe the Theory that has the least amount of problems. An invisible being that refuse to communicate with Mankind in an effective manner is far more troublesome than the Theory of evolution. All powerful Gods should have the power to convince me that they exist. Their refusal to do so does not help their position.

  I am not by any evidence forced to believe a certain way.

  I am forced to believe a certain way by evidence and also by the lack of evidence. Evidence does not necessarily mean that something is absolutely a fact without some doubt. To believe in opposition to the evidence, is to live in denial.

  This being true the wise thing is only to believe only that which it benefits me to.

  How do you determine what is of benefit to you? Is your decision as to what is of benefit based upon evidence? Or do you just flip a coin on that decision also? When the coin lands heads up, do you decide that the evidence indicates heads up, or do you just believe what you want?

  Oh, yeah, If God truly does not exist, how do you benefit by believing in him? Will your thoughts and actions that are based on your belief in God be pointless and therefore of no benefit (waste of time)?

  pseudo

  edited for grammar and clarity, also added the following:

  Does the evidence indicate that God exists or does not exist?

  If you answer, "exists", then you believe in agreement with the evidence, therefore how can we know that you choose to ignore the evidence?

  If you answer, "does not exist" then you know that God does not exist, but just say you believe he does. Knowledge and belief cannot be separated. If you know he does not exist, this discussion is pointless.

  If you answer, "don't know" then we still cannot believe that you choose to ignore the evidence.

  Edited by - pseudoxristos on 24 September 2002 4:34:18
• 

  Realist

  Zechariah,

  ok i have to say i am getting more and more confused.

  you seem to know something about computers...

  for most people computers are a miracle...they have no clue how they work and on what principles they are built on. so lets say you bring an indian from the amazon rain forrest who has never had contact with civilization into contact with this technology he might come to the conclusion that this is the work of God.

  you however know that this is the work of humans...pretty complicated stuff but still the work of humans. you have the knowledge and the literature that can show the indian how a computer is made...and that it is not a miracle.

  however the indian refuses to look at the evidence..because he prefers his view...that this is the creation of God.

  how reasonable would you consider this standpoint of the indian? and in this light how reasonable is your standpoint to refuse to even look at the scientific findings and explainations supporting evolution?do you think all scientists are nutcases that have nothing to do all day but making up the outragous nonsense? if this is so then why do we have all this technology that is based on scientific fndings made in the last 200 years? why do drugs work? why can we create transgenic animals and plants? why can we clone animals?

  i would be more than willing to read any evidence that supports your point of view...what would be the point in refusing the possibility to live in paradise int he future etc.? do you consider all of us crazy?