Questions For The Skeptics (Unbelievers)

by Zechariah 46 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  patio34

  Hi again Zech,

  I'll take a stab, but not to convince you, but just to stretch my own thinking a bit.

  Humans and chimps have evolved from a common ancestor. Humans are a branch of evolution that kept to themselves. I don't know the number of teeth chimps have, incidentally. However, unless there is an environmental change significant to cause the death of many species pretty much stay the same. Apparently the number of teeth humans have enable offspring to survive and there's no evolutionary shove towards selecting for different numbers of teeth. Probably this occurs in ANY species. Humans have always traveled and interbred with other humans. This makes the gene for number of teeth, digits, arms, etc. pretty widespread and stable.

  Pat
• 

  Valis

  Do not you believe in the power of prayer? Believers believe God that whatever we ask in his name we will receive. They use effectively prayer to summon supernatural help in time of need and to achieve righteous personal goals and prosperity. Also prayer for the believer is to offer thanks to the creator for his gifts.

  Prayer does little good except as a cathartic experience perhaps. Praying to the JW brand of a diety is like expecting to win the lottery. As well, I wonder how many times Mother Theresa prayed for the sick and dying children she cared for all her life and to what end? They are still there (sick and dying) and she's dead as a door nail.

  Do you celebrate Thanksgiving? If so why?

  Yes I do becuase its a national holiday unique to our country. It also allows me the opportunity to meet and enjoy my friends and real family. It has little to do with anything religious.

  Do you believe a law of reciprocity (reaping what you sow) exists? If so who or what enforces these laws?

  Sure what comes around goes around. The people and circumstances that you surround yourself enforce said law. That's a no brainer.

  Do you agree with the following concept?

  Physical man and spirit man are two distinct entities integrated into one creature known as a hu/man or a man of the humus. Human is also known as earthling man. Both these distinct enities each in a beficial parasitic relationship with ne another. They ae housed in a body which is the vehicle for taveling through the earh experience.

  They feed off each other in order to create life and all its experiences. Do you recognize what is being spoken of at 2 Corinthians as the physical (carnal) man vs. the spiritual man. The physical man ignores his spiritual heritage as a son of God in his likeness whereas the spiritual anccepts it and Godas his father.

  Uh whatever. Believing you have some "other" thing within your body is purely egoistic. The need for that "other" has throughout time brought more harm than good EVER. It also still places humans as of more import than the rest of the universe.

  Are any emotions positive or negative unique to the individual or are the shared universlly?It is a shocking fact that as Gods Little Computer People we are all connected together with all spirit creatures and God. It is on kind of a invisible LAN network that we all can access with the right clearances and passwords.

  Once again this sounds very JWish with all the talk of needing the right password or clearances. if Dog existed then surely it would be evident and accessible to all regardless of belief. To assume that a creator would somehow need to be exclusive is arrogant at best. Yet another manmade delusion.

  Oh yeah and your comment about teeth is just plain stupid. Children have about 20 teeth before they come out and adults have 32. The only thing that changes that fact is disease or deformity. That's a little science for you to consider..something you find sorely lacking in the bible. This doesn't change and hasn't changed since homo sapien has enjoyed the "earth experience".

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  COMF

  Do not you believe in the power of prayer?

  Yes, do not I. My lack of belief is based on a lifetime of trying. Don't you dare bring up any of that crap you guys always fall back on, about not having right motive or not doing it the right way or not asking for the right things. I had it right. Never got even the slightest hint of an answer, not even so much as the clearing of a throat.

  Do you celebrate Thanksgiving? If so why?

  Because I see no reason not to.

  Do you believe a law of reciprocity (reaping what you sow) exists? If so who or what enforces these laws?

  If you jump off a tall building, it's just possible that an airplane might fly by and catch you, or that you'll land on an awning unscathed; but chances are you're going to splatter. Gravity enforces this.

  They [are] housed in a body which is the vehicle for taveling through the earh experience.

  Pure bullshit. We are flesh and nothing else. This is why our moods and behavior can be changed by chemicals or electrical stimulation.

  Are any emotions positive or negative unique to the individual or are the shared universlly?

  Emotions are dictated by your chemical makeup. For corroboration, check this out with anyone who suffers from clinical depression and takes medication that helps with it.

  These emotions are all spirits having personality.

  You are sadly deluded.
• 

  alfie

  I think some of you folks have WAY too much time on your hands.

  CIAO4NIAO!!

  alfie
• 

  Wolfgirl

  Do not you believe in the power of prayer?

  No, I never felt God was listening to me or answering me, not even through all my years as a JW. Never felt a thing.

  Do you celebrate Thanksgiving? If so why?

  No. I'm married to an Englishman. That holiday means nothing to English people, and I don't really see the point. :)

  Do you believe a law of reciprocity (reaping what you sow) exists? If so who or what enforces these laws?

  I think you reap what you sow. I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with God, though. There are consequences to every action. For every action, there is a reaction.

  Do you agree with the following concept?

  Physical man and spirit man are two distinct entities integrated into one creature known as a hu/man or a man of the humus. Human is also known as earthling man. Both these distinct enities each in a beficial parasitic relationship with ne another. They ae housed in a body which is the vehicle for taveling through the earh experience.

  They feed off each other in order to create life and all its experiences. Do you recognize what is being spoken of at 2 Corinthians as the physical (carnal) man vs. the spiritual man. The physical man ignores his spiritual heritage as a son of God in his likeness whereas the spiritual anccepts it and Godas his father.

  ***

  I don't really think I believe that. I am borderline agnostic/athiest now.

  Are any emotions positive or negative unique to the individual or are the shared universlly?It is a shocking fact that as Gods Little Computer People we are all connected together with all spirit creatures and God. It is on kind of a invisible LAN network that we all can access with the right clearances and passwords.

  It is amazing how on Talk shows the whole world can tap into hurt, joy, or love being expressed. All emotions good and bad are out there invisible like radio waves. We receive the emotions we are tuned into in many ways. Can you see this is true? These emotions are all spirits having personality. I am certain this is why ancient civilization developed there were individual Gods for every emotion. In a sense there exists just that.

  ***

  Um...no. I don't think I follow you. That didn't make sense to me. :)
• 

  gsx1138

  While I don't agree with atheists and skeptics I think it is always important to consider what they have to say. Your presumption is that you need to change some other persons mind because of what you believe. It would be the same as me starting a post to convince all christians to drop their religion and become a Pagan like me. I must say I have become more enlightened to reality with the help of the so called skeptics on this board than I ever did studying various Christian religions for 15 years. The only thing that keeps me from being an atheist myself are a series of personal experiences that neither science nor the Bible could explain adequately.

  Instead of trying to get skeptics to think a different way why don't you just try and listen to them? You might learn something. Unlike what the JW's teach it is ok to listen to a differing opinion. You don't have to agree with it but it may help you look at your own beliefs in a different way.
• 

  Realist

  Zechariah,

  a) not all people have the same number of teeth...32 and 28 are also possible.

  b) changes in morphology take a long time..they require very specific changes in genes regulating embryonic development and the selection for these changes.

  if 36 teeth is usually the perfect number than there is no reason during evoluton to change that number...but you could select for individuals with only 32 teeth...after interbreeding these individuals you would get a population of people with only 32 teeth.

  evolution is a fact. there is absolutely NO point in denying it. what you can debate is if God artificially directed evolution to get humans in the end. this standpoint doesn't sound very reasonable to me though considering our understanding of molecular biology and how changes in the DNA arise.
• 

  Zechariah

  Reply to: Pat

  Thanks for your reply. I meant the "skeptics" spent many years being non-skeptical. You said they had never considered all these things before--my point is that they had considered these--28 years in my case.

  You are incorrectly assuming JWs can be classed believers. They too can never be spiritual men as they deny a man is a spirit being physically embodied. This denial of their royal status as kings of the earth prevents them of ever becoming perfect in terms of being completely equipped for every good work. Only trust in God can completely equip man. He must first accept his created status. It is too comlex right now to go beyond this to explain how JWs are not true believers.

  You mentioned teeth numbers as evidence of a creator. I have no specific rebuttal for that off the top of my head.
  However, the general argument of complexity and adaptation seems to spring from "anything that complex and perfectly suited must have a designer or creator." What is being left out of the equation in the theists' argumentation is the supposed complexity and suitability of a vastly superior designer or god. If humans are too complex and suited to just appear, how is it possible that God could just appear or always exist, with no designer?

  
  To answer this I revert to my Little Computer People analogy. God designed, manufactured, tested, and perfected his creation just as we do our computers. We are characters in a computer game where things that happen are illusionary and temporary. We are PACman (Planned and Created man).

  There are many lives we are afforded in the game. From our limited perspective as interactive player these lives are final. But not really. The creator can reincarnate us and give us more plays (lives) to perfect us as spirit beings making us completely equipped for every good work. It also qualifies us positions of oversight as kings and priests with Christ. We can build up a high score for judgement day.
  
  Like man is the creator of a Pacman game. From the viewpoint of the PACman himself it is beyond his comprehension the exact nature of where God came from. If the literal PACman had the reasoning ability of a human he could not possibly be able to comprehend how God himself was not designed by the same binary programming procedure he was but rather by some process called reprduction. We have the same dilemma at this even now young stage in our existence .

  We can never move beyond it if we fail to accept the object lessons from our own creations and realize it is not yet time to comprehend those things. Yes. Its is rational to believe the creator somewhere down the line had a creator himself. The when and hows of that is a vain effort if we can't even comprehend our own created status.

  P. S. The issue that made me become a critical thinker was the dinosaurs and their significant carnivorous behavior. The JWs always said there was violence in nature because of Adam's sin. Then Isaiah assures us that said violence will be done away with in a paradise earth.
  However, when did dinosaurs exist? After humans (i.e., Adam)? No, they lived and ruled the earth millions of years before humans. So, the violence was there long before any humans' alleged sin.
  Additionally, Gen. 1:30 states that in the beginning all ate green vegetation. Patently not true. From the bacteria on up to the dinosaurs, probably half of them were eating flesh, not green vegetation. Of course, the writer of Genesis had no knowledge of dinosaurs and their vicious behaviors.

  So my question to a Bible-believer (fundamentalist), is why is there violence in nature? To me, it gives much more evidence of evolution being the explanation, rather than a "loving" god, deliberately creating fangs, talons, parasites, and poisons so they could all kill or be
  killed. That gives evidence of survival of the fittest

  
  
  Obviously , I am not a fundamentalist. There is nothing fundamental about what I believe. I totally reject almost anything ever taught me by JWs. I have always though I grew up a JW never believed and will never believe JWs have the monopoly on God and the Bible. I am the ultimate independent thinker. Anyone who tries to compare my opinions to JW theology has to be blind. Not you my dear.

  This was all a necessary preface to my opinions about violence in the animal kingdom. One of te creative disciplines of the creator is to achieve balance and contrast. Nothing can be perceived or apreciated without something to contrast it with. If everything was white or everything were black we could perceive no form as it would all be camoflagued. How can we appreciate love if there was no hate.

  How could we appreciate civility without the beastly behavior of animals to cntrast it. Physical life on earth is a university of hard knocks for the perfecting of the spirit. It is temporary training ground in which evil is allowed to exist to perfect the soul.

  Physical death and suffering from the creators lofty standpoint is in no way final. It is no more significant than the rod of discipline for the education of a child. Do not spare the rod. He will not die (spiritually) and can have his life regenerated. Please don't jump on me that I am advocating child abuse. We'll talk about that another time if you have a problem with it (anyone).

  Zechariah
• 

  Yerusalyim

  REALIST,

  I gotta challenge one thing you said. You denied there was evidence prayer ever helped anyone. NOT TRUE. A few years ago clinical tests were run where plants were prayed for. The plants that were prayed for grew better. In the same study patients that were prayed for did better than those who weren't prayed for, but it was harded to put together a control group for this study. This was all over the news, I can't believe you didn't read it.
• 

  seedy3

  Yerusalyim,

  I'm sorry, and I mean no insult, but that is the funniest thing I have ever heard.

  I would love to see what the controls were on the praying and not praying over the plants, the conditions that they all lived in, were they in seperate rooms? if they were in the same room, how is it none of the prayer didn't flow over to the athiest plants??

  So you mean that the Christian farmer on the left side of the road that prays for his corn crop, is going to do better then the Athiest farmer on the right side of the road??

  I'll have to tell my pot growing friend, he is always looking for a way to get a better yield.

  Sorry, but that just struck me as really really funny.

  Seedy