The long awaited Dossier on Iraq UK Position

by Celtic 73 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  LDH

  1st scenario:

  Lisa is minding her own business, walking down Main Street with the kids in tow. She sees a madman attacking pedestrians, all the while spewing his hate and contempt for the rest of mankind. Lisa decides to lovingly reach out to said human being, who sucker punches her. She tries getting up from the ground after a moment or two to defend herself, but alas, the fight was over before it's begun. She gets her ass kicked.

  2nd scenario:

  Lisa is minding her own business, walking down Main Street with the kids in tow. She sees a madman attacking pedestrians, all the while spewing his hate and contempt for the rest of mankind. When he gets close enough, she pulls out the baseball bat from behind her back and pulls a "Sons of Katie Elder" smackdown. (If you haven't seen the movie, go rent it. You'll know what I mean.) Madman gets up, dazed and woozy but swearing he wasn't going to hurt you. Cool. Lisa brings him to the ER to get fixed up.

  Now, knowing me, which option do you think Lisa would choose? Any parent in their right mind would choose Scenario #2. Bush has a moral obligation to protect Americans before he protects Iraqis. Period.

  Lisa

  Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me Class
• 

  TTBoy

  I'm seing no rebuttles from poster or opposers to US preemptive action, maybe we made our point?

  Let's wait for Saddam to nuke someone before we do something. Then, yea, we'll all be right. Al Gore makes me sick BTW. There is bipartician support if you watch the news.

  TT

  Added: LDH - If SH was removed the embargo against Iraq would be lifted. Gas prices would go down eventually. That sounds like making a country a part of the global community. Under SH, you are correct, Iraq can offer the world nothing.

  Edited by - TTBoy on 24 September 2002 21:26:17
• 

  kelsey007

  I am reading a book: "Forbidden Truth". Written in France by Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasqie. One of the sources for the material in the book was John O'neal, the former head of anti-terrorism in the US and deputy director of the FBI's New York office in charge of national security. Mr. O'neal perished trying to save lives at the WTC towers on 9-11 when he perished in the fall of the buildings.

  For any of the flag-waving- "let's kick Sadams ass" Bush supporters out there I ask that you read this book. There is much more material available for those who can get away from cable news long enough to find the facts.

  To fight terrorism we must turn to Saudi Arabia. In my humble knowledge I always wondered why we were not going to the source in this war. The long and the short of it is "OIL" and and oil companies. Our desire to remove the Taliban was due to an oil pipeline not a desire to catch bin Ladin. President George W. Bush was a recipient of bin Laden family investment money.

  Cold hard facts that are well doccumented but now conveniently white washed over now with Bush anti Sadam propaganda. Americans do well to remember what they saw on the cable news last year much less what was on the 2nd page of the paper 10 years ago.

  Terrorism must be fought at it's source- it's roots are in Saudi Arabia. Terrorism must also be fought in the USA. Cells still exist here. They are the ones that can harm us. Iraq does not posses any weapons of mass destruction that he can fire at our land from where he sits. None that the US cannot effectively stop short of reaching our turf. This administration will not ever effectively wage a war against terrorism because oil gets in our way. History bares it out.
• 

  breeze

  Realist & Logical,

  You guys have been poisoned against the west by something you are involved in, religion, group, cult. That is what this site is supposed to be about, it is mostly for x-jw's to blurt out their frustrations with being in a cult, group or such.

  I have doubts that either of you are x-jw's because of your strong convictions about history and the events of the world. Hatred of the west is fashionable only in these off beat groups and in the Islamic world. Most of the hatred is driven by jealousy.

  The west is a crappy place but it is in this time in history by far the best of the world. Yes, the past has brought the US and allies into many situations that were unfortunate but the response given by the west was as humane as possible, given the circumstances.

  As far as Hitler and his intentions about attacking the world outside of Europe, I don't think anyone has facts about this, but it seems to me that just the evidence brought to you by this forum in the last few minutes you must see that the west is at least trying to be a big brother to the rest of the world. Their motives are probably somewhat selfish but the world is about two things, power & profits.

  Don't think for a minute that the balance of the world isn't interested in using these Iraq & Islamic countries to make a nickel. Fact is that just tonight on one of the political shows, they mentioned that the growing interest in backing the west in this attack on Iraq is coming from a large growing debt that Iraq has with them, probably due to the embargos set up by the UN.

  151drinker, Yeah go get them BUD.....

  There is no but to this.......

  BREEZE

  Edited typos only....

  Edited by - breeze on 24 September 2002 22:9:27
• 

  TTBoy

  Thx breeze for your comments.

  Yes I'm sure we should go after Saudi's but unfortunately their government usually assists us (US) thus it would be BAD PR to go after them. That's a really hard call. I suppose the only way the US can solve that problem is continuing it's war on terrorism. If they are contributing to terrorism then it will be brought to public knowledge (just as the JW pedophile situation is).

  As for making a buck - tell your congressman that we sholud gain prifits on oil production from countries we reform. I did. Also tell them the UN is worthless. There are major airlines going bankrupt because of 9/11. Hell I'm thinking of running for some type of public office. I'm sick of these old gesers who have no ballz (or clue) and bow to the slightest complaint to get votes. Piss on that. - Jessie Ventura is my mentor.
• 

  Realist

  hello guys,

  so for the missing rebutals but it got kind of late yesterday (central european time)

  LDH: i am sorry but this is a not quite accurate comparison. what evidence do you have that hussein is planning to attack anyone? the war against iran was provoked on both sides...and the occupation of kuwait occured after kuwait had tried to steal oil from iraqi territory and the US embassador had told hussein that the US would be ok with an invasion.

  nevertheless if it would be possible to take out hussein without causing massive colateral damage and indeed install a nice democracy than i would be on your side...however, what will happen is that thousands and thousands of iraqi civilians will get killed by US laser guided or not guided bombs and after hussein is gone a corrupt puppet regime will be installed. (i will apologize after the war if i am wrong with that assumption)

  breezy: where did you get the notion from that i hate the west? i am a member of our beloved western civilization and live in a western european country (also spent 3 years in the US). do i therefore have to ignore all the mistakes the west makes? i don't think so! as you said the west is a shitty place...that is all i pointed out. who says that our western civilization and capitalism makes people happy? i think there mare many many mistakes in our way of live.

  also that the US system has relatively little to do with a true democracy is very obvious. no matter who gets elected the industry decides what will be done. some presidents make that more obvious than others but its always the same thing. it is a truly corrupt system. (did you by chance see the movie with eddy murphy 'a distinguished gentelman' ? i think its a very funny portray of the actual situation in the US)

  i have a question to all the nice people who have faith in the goodness of the US governemnt and who think the US is intervening in half the world to protect human right...if this is true why do they take action only against regimes that are an obstacle to the US industry/ US influence in an area? why do they support and install evenly evil regimes in other coutries where the US industry is making good money?

  about Hitler and the nazis...i personally hate the military, i hate nationalism and i hate fashism...so i am truly thankful that these guys are gone. but that doesn't mean i have to believe everything that they are accused of.
• 

  roybatty

  Realist,

  The point I was making with mentioning Vietnam & Korea is the fact that when the US has stepped in and won (Korea=win, Vietnam=lose) things turned out very much differntly for the winner or looser. Again, South Korea is a first rate nation, an economic powerhouse with a high standard of living. North Korea is a third-world shit-hole, Vietnam is a third-world shit hole.

  Do I believe that the US doesn't also have a selfish reason when helping out other countries. Of course! But these other countries have benefitted much more then the US has in these conflicts. What will the US gain by invading Iraq? They will have neutralized a terrorist nation. The people of Iraq will benefit by having millions of dollars of aid pumped into their nation and a chance to set up a government elected by the people.
• 

  Realist

  roybatty,

  i hope you are right about iraq.

  south korea turned up really nice...no questino about it.

  vietnam was a poor country already before the war...the war then destroyed the little infrastructure adn industry they had. it is not surprising that they couldn't recover from that without massive foreign support.
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  Breeze,

  We will get Saudi Arabia in about 15 years. With the way Tech is going with nanotechnology and Fuel Cells, our Dependence on them for Oil will start to fade and they will just dry up and bloooooow away.

  Well the whole Vietnam thing is getting better, but what do expect, their government sucks. Communism is not very productive. But we did bomb the shit out of them.....

  Soooo lets get this party started and take out Saddam. Maybe we can install some puppet gov. ala Panama and we'll get some cheap oil. Pump the place dry and scram.

  Forget it, why stop there?? Lets Just get rid of all these shit heads. Im tired of all their crap. Ghengis Khan did a pretty good job. Screw the Joker U.N. Lets just kick some ass! Everyone says that we are evil, well then lets be evil! Lets REALLY give them something to preach about! %#@%@ I get soooo tired of hearing about all this little pinhead countries mouthing off. If the cold war was still going on we wouldnt have this problem. Well if we are the Global Police that everyone wants us to be, then lets make some arrests and confiscate some property.

  Or I guess we could wait for the oil to run out in 50 years. Then what will they do! OPEC?? WHO???
• 

  Englishman

  Mind you, I hear that the Arab nations actually admire a cruel and strong leader, so God knows how much real support we will get from them.

  There's about 30 Arab countries I believe. Can you think of one that is actually a democracy?

  Englishman.