Help a lurking dub with doubts

by undercover 64 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  hillary_step

  Hello Undercover,

  Welcome to the Board. We sympathize with your internal struggles. Many of us have walked this road before and understand the price to be paid for examining what was once an irreversible belief in the WTS dream. You ask :

  Does the GB really believe they are God's human channel for all of mankind to learn about his kingdom?

  Yes, they do Undercover. At the basis of all WTS thinking is a core belief that can never be changed without dismantling their whole theological framework. This belief can be summed up very simply - "We Speak for God". However much damage is done to peoples lives, whatever color they paint the reversal of policy, or the latest doctrinal distortion, this demand is ever-present.

  Or is there some sinister conspiracy?

  The conspiracy comes with conditioning the mind of its adherents by deceitful means which over the years the WTS has turned into an art form. JWs are frightened to think outside of the framework that the WTS allows. This fear is a result of many things, the two most powerful being fear of repercussions in the form of social or spiritual alienation, and the fact that finding a flaw in the WTS theology might lead to an unraveling of the majority of their teachings, which it has to be said is a natural result of a logical and scholarly examination. The aftermath may be very uncomfortable, thinking for one-self is very traumatic when others have done this for you, sometimes for decades.

  Is it to fleece millions of people to make them rich or powerful?

  Money is not at the heart of the WTS. The GB truly believe what they believe, though it has to be said that the ones that I know personally, exude an attachment to the adoration that comes their way. Being honest, I suspect most of us would find it hard to resist the spell of adulation. Power is important to them on a corporate basis, but personally I have found the ones that I know to be rather weak, and certainly not terribly good students of the Bible.

  What do they gain by this notoriety?

  A sense of belonging, a belief that they sit in the right hand of Christ. The greed of spiritual conquest is the most dangerous drug of all.

  As I am rather agnostic in many of my personal beliefs, I will leave others to answer the questions on the validity of religious organizations and whether they are necessary, or just a barrier to true spirituality.

  Best regards and do keep posting - HS

  Edited by - hillary_step on 25 September 2002 15:51:16
• 

  mamashel

  Welcome undercover. I understand all your questions, and I know what you are going through. If you have seen the answers on the issues you first spoke about, then it sounds like you are already getting the answers you are looking for. All I can suggest is to keep doing your homework, and hopefully you will find peace in the decision that you make. There are people here who have been thru some really terrible things. Some are bitter, some dont care any more and some will listen and try to help you get thru. Just know this, it doesnt happen over night, and it will take time for you to take it all in. The best thing to remember is that there are people out there for you and are willing to help you every step of the way. It takes time to take in understanding of something that you have believed for a very long time to be the truth, and then to have your doubts, and to find out that it actually is not the truth.

  Best wishes in your search. I hope you find the truth for yourself.

  mamashel
• 

  undercover

  <<If a member of the rank and file chooses to stay silent at this time in order to be able to stay close to their families, what is it to you? What purpose could you possibly have for asking this question? Are you here to bait the forum? >>

  First of all, thanks for the welcome.

  I'm not trying to "bait" anyone. These are just questions that I have. I include myself as one that has not said anything to anyone. My family are JW's. My best friends growing up are JWs. Do I take a chance at losing that by saying something? Is this a spiritual warfare(you know it's ok to lie in spiritual warfare).

  My inclination is to just stay inactive, and keep my friends and family. I know though that if the elders make a sheparding call, I will be inclined to open my big mouth. I don't think one voice will win against the big organization despite how logical, precise and correct the arguement. And the R&F will go right along with the org.

  I appreciate all the replys so far. I see that I'm not alone and that many others have gone thru what I am going thru now.
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello Undercover,

  Yes some are vindictive. Try not to let it bother you. Folks here have nearly all come from the common ground of the WT experience but some have been hurt extremely by its policies. As you get to know them you will understand.

  As to the Governing Body, I am of the somewhat unpopular belief that most of them really believe in their roll as the "channel of communication" of God. I do not believe in the "conspiracy theory". If you get a chance to obtain Eric Hoffer's book The True Believer it will help you understand. It does an excellent job explaining what has been going on. The book simply puts understanding into movements and the stages a movement and its 'true believers'. You will also see in the book the reality that the WT will either "mainstream" as a religion or dissipate.

  We sympathize with your sense of loss and disallusionment. You will eventually get more comfortable with not knowing all the answers as we all thought we did at one time. You will probably go through a period of doubting everything. Hopefully you will emerge from it all, possibly years from now comfortable with your own form of spirituality and the freedom to search and develope it.

  Many of us will agree with you that the Rutherford got one thing right (perhaps the only thingf) :

  RELIGION IS A SNARE AND A RACHET

  Since becoming inactive and no longer "feeding on the teachings from the F&DS", my mind seems freeer, more at ease. I see things I didn't see before(the little inconsistencies that we just used to shrug our shoulders at). I feel like a huge burden has been lifted.

  Now you are on the right road.

  Is there anyone else that had the same thoughts that I have now?

  It's easier to answer the question, 'Is there anyone here who has not had the same thoughts'?

  I have not read R. Franz's or C.O. Johansons books yet.

  Try the local library. If not Barns and Noble or Books Amillion are the like can order them. Sometimes the local religious book story will stock it. I would start with Crisis of Conscience.

  (If this comes up as a red font, sorry. I don't know how to change back to black font.)

  Now I seem to have the same problem.

  Welcome to the board Undercover. Hope to hear more from you.

  Jst2law
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello again Undercover,

  . I know though that if the elders make a sheparding call, I will be inclined to open my big mouth

  This is a natural inclination but a very dangerous approach. That consequence of 'opening your big mouth' is the reason many live what may appear to JW's as a double life or the hypocrisy you refered to. To some it may be "theocratic warfare" but for otherwise it is just good sense.

  If we all lived during the time of the inquisition and a church official asked us if we read the bible what would you do? You could answer honestly and seal you execution are you could be smart. Those today who think for themselves face a modern day Inquisition.

  So if the elders call, Undercover, BE Smart. Keep you mouth shut.

  Jst2laws
• 

  Gerard

  It seems that you have started to ask important questions. Keep it up without guilt as the "truth" will stand to all queries and inspections. You may need sometime to continue this awakening so take a look at this, it may give you extra time:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36328&site=3

  Gerry
• 

  cruzanheart

  Welcome, undercover! I was EXACTLY where you are, feeling EXACTLY as you do, about three months ago. This forum will help you tremendously. I too feel freer every day and am enjoying the luxury of living a "normal" life, that includes school functions, playing more with my children, and not always being in a rush to get to a meeting or feeling guilty because I didn't make it or I'm late. I too haven't told very many of my Witness friends that I am not going back, for the same reason: I don't want what's left of my friends to feel obligated to stop talking to me, AND I want my departure to be on my terms, not the organization's. I just purchased "Crisis of Conscience" and it's very interesting but I think you already know in your heart what you feel is the right thing to do.

  It's not about money - it's about power and control and the organization has turned into the Pharisees. It happened before in history, so why not now? Our Heavenly Father looks at each individual's heart condition, what motivates them to do what they do or don't do, and not whether they're following a set of impossible rules. That was the Law covenant. Jesus fulfilled that and it is no more.

  Take it one step at a time, undercover, and know we are all on your side! I benefitted from therapy, because I started having anxiety attacks when I left. It was great to talk to a totally objective person and to verbalize what I was feeling - made it real somehow.

  Keep us posted with your progress and any questions or feelings you have I'll bet one of us can help you with!

  Lots of love and encouragement,

  Nina
• 

  Axelspeed

  You are not alone. Many are confronted with many of those same questions. I too, do not believe in a "conspiracy theory". I know far too many, who I know are good and caring people, to believe in some widespread conspiracy. I believe in is much more a case of "victims of victims" as described in COC. Many of the nagging questions that you may have always had, but didn't know who could be trusted to ask (in confidence)are probably addressed. The other book ISOCF goes further, and even gets into argumentation and manipulation. But even here, instead of revealing a blatant maliciousness, it speaks more to a "victims of victims" mentality being pervasive, not only at the bottom, but even the top.

  So much has gone into preserving the life and image of the org, preserving the mentality that it must be fed at ALL cost, that the whole idea it has taken on a life of its own--an Orwellian 1984ish one where to even hint at question or dissent will, be met with charges of heresy. And so out of fear of not appearing to be "into it enough", doubts are suppressed, cognitive dissonance is applied, and life goes on. This is a fear that not only applies to the r/f, but even at the higher levels it acts as a muzzle, lest one find himself another ousted R. Franz. This is not so much about individuals, but rather a system that now finds itself practically landlocked. Change would be difficult, at best, in an environment of fear, where a one does not know who to turn to or trust/ confide in even if they desired to make a plea for constructive change in a certain area. I think Orwell's 1984 illustrates it well.

  As mentioned above Hoffer's True Believer is a good book and does a good job of explaining the phenomenon that fuels mass movements. Hassan's cult books are also good. A good piece of advice is to read, read, read. Also some college courses on history, religious history (things like the Protestant Revolution)in particular, would be good. It will put a lot of perspective on a probably mainly JW world that many, including myself have grown up in, and illustrate what a blip on the screen it really is.

  Edited by - Axelspeed on 25 September 2002 17:5:6
• 

  Reborn2002

  undercover asked:

  Are they sincere in thinking they speak for God, or are they intentionally misleading people?

  Are you kidding yourself? Or do you just simply remain in denial?

  How many prophecies have the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society proclaimed that have NOT come to fruition?

  1975?

  see: http://www.quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/1975.htm

  The generation that saw the events of 1914 would by no means pass away before the conclusion of this system of things?

  see: http://www.jwfiles.com/1914Generation.htm

  Have they EVER apologized for being WRONG?

  NO. Instead, they shift the blame that overanxious members of their own religion inspired such lunacy and they simply make a new prophecy, or alter the previous one with "New Light (TM)"

  For the powers that be within JW-dom to NEVER apologize for making mistakes, after all.. they are the "sole channel and instrument that God is using" which "operates under the direction of Jehovah God himself".. is it that Almighty God changes his mind time and time again.. or his anointed servants fuck up the interpretation over and over? You decide.

  It is all about the money.

  For it being a non-profit worldwide work that is supposed to be about "saving lives and aiding others into entering God's Kingdom".. the Watchtower Society sure is interested in money which is "the root of all sorts of injurious things"

  I submit for your perusal the following Newsday article recently posted on this website:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37173&site=3

  Amount of revenue?

  $ 951,000,000

  Who cares if they tell the truth or not? They prefer to control people's lives and make millions of dollars by doing so.

  I suggest you educate yourself before you ask stupid questions.
• 

  Mulan

  Welcome to our world!

  I was just like you, as were most on this board. I was raised a JW, married one, and he became an elder, and we raised our 4 children in it. I was a regular pioneer. Then we started to learn things that just didn't work with the JW theology. I won't list the things, because there were so many, but most are in Ray Franz' books, which I didn't read until we were already fading out. Neither of us are df'd or da'd. We gradually became inactive, and lucky for us, we were in a congregation where the elders didn't do their job, and didn't try to shepherd us. Whew! (my husband resigned as an elder because he was starting a business and was traveling to Japan once a year for months at a time........and they let him quit) All of our children and their families are out now too. We are now 57 and 58.

  As to conspiracies: I think some of the GB are sincere men, but I think some of them are vile, despicable men, who are only trying to perpetuate a dying, pitiful system of belief. It means everything to those men, because they have NO families and nowhere to go if the organization isn't what they say it is. So, YES, I think some of them do know............they aren't that stupid. They do too many irresponsible things with the WT and the doctrines, trying to manipulate the scriptures to say whatever they have to, to keep it going.

  You will find many on this board who will attack you, and many more who will help you. I hope you can "weed" through the crap to get to what you need.