I wasnt answering you Lew... I was refering to the statement that you had to be 18 to die in war, which isnt true.
Animal
Sisters going after minor brothers
by nowaytess 57 Replies latest jw friends
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DakotaRed
I would like the source of your information, then Animal. Through all my veteran sites, 5 died that were 16. But, I do know that regulations stated you must be 18 to go. Of course, as in every other war, I'm sure some lied to get in. Personally, I never met any under 18 when I was there.
Lew W
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Swan
Dear DakotaRed;
Thank you Lew for posting those links. I found this one particularly informative:
http://www.websurfer13.com/Female%20Pedophiles.htm
It went into a lot of detail about how many different kinds of abuse there are. It is not always clear cut. There are many variations and circumstances.
Some examples of subtle abuse include a mother encouraging her child to sleep in the same bed with her on a frequent occasion or bathing a child at an inappropriate age. These acts are often borderline between healthy behavior and abuse and are often difficult to distinguish.
I can see where this can become very confusing to a child.
Third, perverse abuse involves making the child feel corrupt about their sexuality. Often this can involve sexist jokes or the humiliation of a child. Forcing a child to dress in the opposite sexes clothing is a way of making a child feel confused and humiliated by their gender and sexual nature.
I know a woman who dressed ALL of the young boys in her family as girls on several occasions. Would this be considered abuse?
Finally, mysoped is the term applied to an aggressive and sadistic child offender. These acts are known as sadistic sexual abuse. This includes female sexual behavior that is intended to hurt the child and may be part of a general pattern of severe physical and emotional abuse. (Saradjian, 1996) Sadistic behavior would include beating or the insertion of objects into the anus or vagina of the child. Sadistic sexual behavior is more common than one would expect from women in regards to child sex abuse.
Would this include enemas? Is it okay for a mother to give her son enemas from the age of about 10 - 15 in the context of home remedy of ailments? I realize this is a sensitive subject but I would really like to know what people out there think about this. I know of a situation like this. I have a hard time discerning what the line is between appropriate and in appropriate behavior, so I never said anything.
What about forms of quack medicine? Would it be considered abusive for a mother to put honey into a child's eyes at bedtime to cure hayfever? Is it considered abusive to feed a child only carrot juice or celery juice in order to enforce a week long fast?
Is this a form of sexual abuse or just child abuse or neither, in your opinion?
I would really appreciate your answers to this as I can not find my perspective on this.
Tammy
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DakotaRed
Tammy, I can only give you my opinion on some of these.
I know a woman who dressed ALL of the young boys in her family as girls on several occasions. Would this be considered abuse?
I can't think of a single reason to dress boys as girls other than to humiliate them. Now, of course, if it were for a Halloween party or something as that, no, I don't think so.
Is it okay for a mother to give her son enemas from the age of about 10 - 15 in the context of home remedy of ailments?
A JW family I used to know were reported to CPS for doing exactly this. I'm not one who is real bid on home remedies, especially something like an enema. Improperly administered or too often, I can see ill effects as a result. Under a doctors supervision, would be a different matter.
What about forms of quack medicine? Would it be considered abusive for a mother to put honey into a child's eyes at bedtime to cure hayfever? Is it considered abusive to feed a child only carrot juice or celery juice in order to enforce a week long fast?
I for one, even though I dislike going to doctors myself, dislike quack medicine even more. Giving a child only juices for a week sounds almost like starvation to me. Carrots and celery do not contain enough of the nutrients we need by themselves, in my opinion. When my daughters were growing up, one thing I never did and still don't believe in is sending a kid to bed without supper. Nutrition and proper diet is too important to growing children, even in their teens. I've never heard of honey in the eyes for hay fever. But, if the child is being denied proper medical attention when needed, then I definitely see that as abuse, not sexual, but abuse nonetheless.
Since you're in Oregon, I'm sure you have heard of the group, The Followers of Christ? They are the ones who don't believe in any medical help at all and depend solely on prayer. It's been a while, but a couple years ago, the State was coming down pretty hard on them for the deaths of children over things as asthma and appendicitis, which are easily treated by medicine.
Would I report this person? That's a hard one for me to answer. Depending on what I actually saw for myself, I might. First, though, I think I would try to reason with her. If I felt the kids were in danger, yes, I wouldn't hesitate. You might call and without giving any information, just inquire with CPS, but unfortunately, many of the case workers there are as abusive to parents as parents are accused of being to children. But, beyond all that, the kids need to be kept safe and properly fed.
I don't know if I helped you. Also, as I said, it is just my opinion. Others may take a harder or softer stance. Listen to your heart after you watch the kids and follow your own good senses.
Lew W
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Jesus Christ
I know of at least one case where a guy I know (not me of course, I'm Jesus and I don't have any kids) had to give his kid enamas, often one right after the other. This was not, however, done for pleasure, at all. The kid has this rare genetic disorder and has to have medical procedures done time to time to take care of it. Before that procedure he needs repeated enamas to clean him out on doctor's orders. Not a fun situation for anyone involved but is one of those cases where I don't think the parents are going over the line that they really wish they didn't even have to approach.
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mouthy
Whew !!as I wipe the sweat from my brow!!!All this talk on sex!!I was wondering if I could remember what it was,Ah! Yes....It was something we didnt do in the WTower-Before marriage!!!! I thought that !when I looked at all those lovely little boys & girls-I thought we were the cleanest Organization in the world-You lot have blown that myth-
I had to learn "what you dont use you loose" I think if consenting adults want to have sex- that is their choice- but dont USE folk- If old men can have young women why cant old women have young men????( I have my eye on one lol)
My husband got into the army at 17 years old by altering his birth cirtificate. He said he was 21.
My two cents.
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Swan
Dear Lew;
Thanks for your feedback on this matter. Your opinion means a lot to me as does the opinion of others. It is sometimes difficult for me to know what the boundaries are because of my closeness to the situation. This all happened about 30 years ago. My mother practiced all sorts of quack remedies on me and my brothers. Especially on me. I know she had always been against medical doctors and especially the cabalistic psychiatrists practicing hyposis to make true Christians lose all moral sense, cluck like chickens, and who knows what other evil.
I think many JWs of that generation were and some still are phobic about medical science. They believe home remedies and quack science more than most people, I think. My mom worried about things like aluminum, vaccinations, lecithin, refined foods, and other seemingly ordinary things because of what she had read in the Society's publications. Any new quack craze that came around she jumped right on, and we kids were her guinea pigs. Liver diets, juice fasts, honey (the miracle food mentioned in the Bible), protein drinks, diets of brewers yeast, vinegar baths, enemas, cod liver oil, whiskey as a medicine, sour milk cultures, algea, chinese herbs (horrible horrible taste), Mexican allergy pills, nasal flushing... you name it, she probably had us doing it.
She did take us to medical doctors on occasion. My symptoms were so severe she took me to several. They could find nothing wrong and said it was psychosomatic and, of course, she then accused them of being quacks, playing God, and sending people to Devil worshipping psychologists rather than admit they couldn't find the real cause. Of course, we never went to the shrink, who probably would have realized that my problem was depression and somatic manifestations of it.
As the Awakes and Wts started to slowly change on their stance toward medical doctors, and even psychiatrists, my mother slowly began to accept and trust the medical profession, although much more slowly than the Society.
As for the enemas, when my mother gave an enema we had to take the whole bottle and then hold it for at least 10 minutes, but preferably 20. I don't know to this day why 20 was the magic number. While we held it, she rubbed our bellies to make sure the water throughly cleaned out every cavity. I still remember the feeling to this day. It was awful!
As for the person who cross-dressed all of the little boys, this was also a person in my family and a JW. She didn't do this for Halloween since our family did not celebrate Halloween. I think it was just something she would often do, then take pictures. I don't think my mother approved of this, but she didn't stop it either.
So it is still very confusing to me if this was okay for her to do or not. How far does a parent's right to administer remedies go? What is over the line? Why would a parent even do this kind of thing if it is over the line? I just don't know. It is something I have struggled to understand for a long time. Is it within reason to accept that a parent did this out of loving concern for a child? If so, why am I not worthy of that love now and am being shunned? Didn't I prove my obedience in submitting to those remedies? I have a hard time understanding it. I just don't understand.
Thank you for answering.
Tammy
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DakotaRed
Tammy, seeing now the how and why of it, it sounds very abusive and somewhat neglectful to me. Of course, 30 years ago, they didn't know as much about depression as they do today, but it sounds like your "symptoms" might have been due to what sounds pretty abusive to me.
I'm so sorry your Mom did you like that. Sorrier even that she depended more on the quackery of the Watchtower and Awake than she did common sense.
Hang in there and be happy you are away from that today.
Lew W
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SixofNine
Tammy, I don't know the story or reasoning behind it, but at the turn of the century, I believe it was quite common to put little boys in dresses for photographs. This might have been a throwback to that. Perhaps just the sickness that is womanhood.
As to the enemas, it seems likely that it was a manifestation of the "icky" doctrine; the idea that if something is "icky" (like blood, or organ transplants), it is to be avoided. If you have crap coming out of your body, why not wash your inards.... cleanliness being next to godliness taken to ridiculous lengths.
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Swan
Dear Lew,
Tammy, seeing now the how and why of it, it sounds very abusive and somewhat neglectful to me. Of course, 30 years ago, they didn't know as much about depression as they do today, but it sounds like your "symptoms" might have been due to what sounds pretty abusive to me.
I'm so sorry your Mom did you like that. Sorrier even that she depended more on the quackery of the Watchtower and Awake than she did common sense.
Hang in there and be happy you are away from that today.
I am, but strangely I still miss her. As an adult I just told her no I didn't want to take this pill or that pill. It bothered her when I started making my own decisions that were based on what was best for me. I can see that a lot of this phobia of doctors came from her own dysfunctional childhood (alcoholic parents). I think my Mom loved me, but she just didn't know where to draw the line and rely on her own common sense rather than the words of the latest quack doctor.
Tammy