by Amazing 148 Replies latest jw friends
Plum, what I meant by what I said, is that if Bill had this opinion, and wanted to keep his credibility, he should have kept it to himself. No one should be surprised at the flame war that erupted after his comments.He has posted other comments, in the past, and then gone in and edited them out. I'll bet he wished he had done that here.
Mulan,Your right. I misunderstood your directionsorry..slithers away quietly, if possible
Edited by - plmkrzy on 9 October 2002 22:32:30
No problem. No need to slither.
To me it seems like maybe Bill demanded that Ray jump on the bandwagon. When Ray refused, Bill interpreted it to mean he doesn't support Silentlambs whatsoever.
Consider this example: My husband said this to me, to give a little perspective "I believe in cancer research, for all kinds of cancer. I choose NOT to support all of the research organziations. I will support breast cancer research, but it doesn't mean I am against Leukemia research or bone cancer research." It made sense to me.
Na, youre a liar.
I think maybe one of the issues here is what each of us is bringing to the table when we open our mouths. I haven't set foot in a kingdom hall since 1988. Yes that was before Al Gore invented the internet (sorry I know that isn't what he said, but it's fun to throw out there). My support group met the old way: in the back room of a church. (and we had to walk twenty miles through the snow to get there, uphill both ways). My wife and I did our research in the public library, and then when we got up the nerve to go into one, the local Christian book store. I think that it was a slower process than what many of you have gone through. (more on that in a few lines).
The internet has opened up a huge means of communication around the world, that is immediately accessable by vast groups of people. Conversations like what is going on right now on this board inable all of us to shoot of our mouths off in a world-wide community before we have a chance to digest what we've heard.
A few years ago I saw a WWII vet and a Vietnam vet being interviewed together. The WWII guy said something about the trip home on a ship that took a month or so, and how he and all of his buddies spent their time playing cards, and celebrating, and swapping stories about what they did, and what they were going to do to the girls when they got home, etc. Then the Vietnam vet says "That's why I'm screwed up. They put me on a plane and 24 hours later I was in my parent's house."
I got out the slow way. I had time to digest, work through my anger and hurt, and figure out what was next. (I just realized this may be the longest post I've put on this board-that may say something about why I think I'm here). I think Ray got out the slow way (with a push). I wouldn't be at all surprized to find out that his attitude about xjw stuff is "been there, done that, got the T-shirt." Billl Bowen (by the way I totally support what he's trying to do) came out the fast way. As the Viet vets would put it he's been rotated back to the world in a hurry (OK kill me for the pun).
Bill: take this as a bit of advice. I think you have a lot of raw scabs that are easily picked off, and hurt and bleed when they are. When one gets picked, try not to scream. Take a deep breath, and go do something else for a few minutes before you respond in your emotion. A lot of us are behind you, that isn't the same thing as agreeing with everything you say.
Another piece of advice to all: before you post, read it out loud. I just made about twenty edits to this. (and I'm sure it still isn't quite right. Mrs T is out for the night, we're starting a long weekend off tomorrow and I'm surfing the net and and indulging in a couple of glasses of wine.)
Just in case someone missed this because they did not check back in to read the opening thread:
IMPORTANT PS: I had a phone discussion tonight regarding this issue, and the fact that Ray Franz was assigned the chapter called "Safeguarding the Cleaness of the Congregation" in the "Organization for Kingdom Preaching and Disciple Making" where the "Two Witness" rule is outlined. (Crisis of Conscience, Pg. 81, Footnote 2) ... the question put to me is whether his responsibility for this chapter means that he also had in mind the more specific Watchtower policy applying this rule strictly in cases of Pedophilia. I did not ask this of Ray because I only stated Bills comments as they were written, where the general policy was not at issue. Bill made a specific policy application that Ray Franz categorically denies participating in or authoring. Since the caller stated that Bill had in mind this global chapter, though he did not cite it or mention it, then I will call Ray again tomorrow and ask more about what he had in mind, as to whether he intended for the global policy to be specifically applied in cases of pedophilia as it has been in BOE letters. Until the question was put to me, all I had to go on was the exact wording in Bill's comments.
It would be very easy for Bill to make all of this go away, but it would require something extraordinary. He would have to show humility, a trait in short supply these days.
All he has to say is, "Hey, I had a bad day" or "I had my head up my ass and should have shut the f**k up" or even, "I was just jealous of the attention that Ray has gotten over the years and wanted some of that for myself." Something. Anything to show that he's sorry for attacking an honorable man without cause.
Are you able to do that, Bill? Is it in you?
He would have to show humility, a trait in short supply these days.
That's the whole problem.
EGO
ash
The fact of the matter is Bill apologized to H_S a few days ago. Got it. He did it and said so. H_S publically said so in a post.
So Bill does do the friggen "extraordinary" - understand??? And I think he did it a "short" time ago.
Bill like anyone else is human and maybe his "ego" might get the best of him some days. Oddly he has not done his ego thingy around me but no doubt he has had his days just like I have had mine. Of course you guys are going to tell me that you don't ever step in it or been out of line.
I know you feel the need to take a good pot shot at him and I think he may deserve it based on what Jim has posted.
But, as one who has stepped in it many times myself, I have patience and I think the matter will be settled in the not so distant future.
hawk
Mulan and husband of Mulan provide excellent comments - as usual.
hawk
