by Amazing 148 Replies latest jw friends
My point is he has apologized in the recent past for doing a stupid thing to another person and I know he has apologized to other people too.
Yes... I see. He went a very long way toward correcting the wrong. Sure did. I'm impressed. **insert rolling eyes thingy here**
It was all a... umm... "misunderstanding." No harm done. Now that THAT'S settled... on to new business!!.....
So let's see ....
You want him to apologize .....
but you think he will likely not and use words like "extraodinary"....
but you still want him to apologize ....
and then when I tell you he has apologized in the past .... you roll your eyes like you don't care?
So it sounds like even if Bill has (or did seeing both men talked according to Amasing and it went well) apologize as you want him to ... you would just roll your eyes ....
Don't get me wrong TJ, you seem like a nice guy and I think I would rather enjoy your posts rather than disagreeing with you. But, just be consistent with me. If you didn't think an apology from Bill to Ray would help you heel from this event why did you say so in the first place?
Listen Bill is a big boy and please just let him have it some more if it makes you feel better. I have seen him take all sorts of nasty Emails and verbal assualts over the past year on a variety issues. I still remember all the assualts he took on the Dateline show delay because of what the producers told him. So if it helps your heeling, nail his ass to the wall on this whether he apologizes or not.
hawk
hawk, I think teejay's point is that the apology was pretty mild compared to the language and tone reported by Hillary Step. I would sure like to see an explanation for words like "dickhead" and a demand to "pledge" loyalty. I believe HS; I've also seen some intemperate language from Bill on this forum - it would be nice to see an equally passionate explanation/apology.
Does he have a responsibility to do so? I would say yes, because he has appealed to this board at times, to raise support for the march for example. Speaking for myself, I am trying to find a way to respect and support Bill and Silentlambs, and a detailed explanation of conduct that seems bizarre would be a big help. I would like to use this issue as a way to discuss WTS shortcomings with my JW wife, and erratic behaviour makes it pretty hard to do so.
peace
Well if it was pretty mild apology then why didn't H_S state so? Instead H_S stated publically that he accepted the apology of Bill and wished the best to Bill and his wife. I didn't here the word "mild" in H_S's comments. Nope - sorry I don't buy into that at all.
But .... I agree with you that Bill does have a "responsibility" to Ray and I also support you that he also has a "responsibility" to this board. You made an extremely excellent point as to why Bill does owe this board a serious "mea culpa" as well as owing one to Ray.
Problem is Bill is away for a while on other stuff that had been arranged while back so I don't think it can happen as fast as I would like. But I am happy that the two men (Ray and Bill) had a good conversation over the issue and it seemed to go well (according to Jim) before Bill had to go.
hawk
Edited by - hawkaw on 11 October 2002 10:10:46
Hillary Step is a known pushover.
Pushover: see "gentleman" in the vernacular of old English.
(from the New American Standard dictionary. new this year, Texan and Eubonics )
lol 6
Agree with your dictionary description - and your wit matches HS's any day. Does HS have matching earrings also?
waiting
Well if it was pretty mild apology then why didn't H_S state so? Instead H_S stated publically that he accepted the apology of Bill and wished the best to Bill and his wife. I didn't here the word "mild" in H_S's comments. Nope - sorry I don't buy into that at all.
Agreed.
You made an extremely excellent point as to why Bill does owe this board a serious "mea culpa" as well as owing one to Ray.
Agreed!
Hawkaw said:
I know when someone steps in it. I know what its like and how embarassing it can be. I bet the farm Bill has a friggen bag over his head right now. Nothing like shoot your credibility all to hell that you have spent a lot of time building up. . . .I guess you are way better than me and never done anything stupid in your life and that's great and I am glad you can pull it off.
Perhaps a public apology from the one who does the stupid thing would more useful than hiding head in "friggen bag". I've rarely seen it more called for.
~Ros
Well if it was pretty mild apology then why didn't H_S state so? Instead H_S stated publically that he accepted the apology of Bill and wished the best to Bill and his wife. I didn't here the word "mild" in H_S's comments. Nope - sorry I don't buy into that at all.
All that proves is that H-S is a VERY GRACIOUS individule, more so then most. (or at least more then the average)
That should be only to obvious and as plain as the nose on you face and if it isn't then that's sad.
So let's see .... You want him to apologize ..... but you think he will likely not and use words like "extraodinary".... but you still want him to apologize .... and then when I tell you he has apologized in the past .... you roll your eyes like you don't care?
I will not mince words with you for the matter makes me very, very ill.
Bowen said:
** He is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that
prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation.
** Ray Franz is no friend to silentlambs, he makes no effort to support child
abuse survivors, he has more than once told many people that he sees no
problem with WT policy on abuse.
** In my opinion he is covering up for something he does not wish to reveal.
**... his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for
what is morally and ethically right.
I think they are lies. I think Bowen KNEW--or at least had little evidence or reason to believe let alone SPOUT ON AN INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC FORUM-- that Ray Franz *ever* said or did ANY of that. To his credit, Ray Franz did what we have come to expect from him. He chose the high ground and rather than take offense, left himself open to talk to a man who could only be described as an adversary. Point is: Bowen slandered an innocent man.
After coming face to face with his error, what did bowen do? In the midst of the firestorm that ensued, in a thread whose title repeated the flippant expression he employed earlier when attempting to edit out his scurrilous comments--"Is Ray Franz Great or What?"--he posted:
I apologized for any misunderstanding and decided as a result to remove any negative comments made about him.What "misunderstanding" was Bowen talking about? The charges he made against Brother Franz were pretty clear to me. Exactly who was it that had the "misunderstanding"? Bowen even left that unclear. Could it be that in Bowen's mind that it was Ray Franz that had the misunderstanding? An ousider like me could read it that way. And I do.
Besides that, Bowen made his statements TO THE BOARD. Does he not also owe US an apology for popping off at the mouth ... or at least an acknowledgement that there has been a... ahhh... "misunderstanding" (totally HIS)?
So it sounds like even if Bill has (or did seeing both men talked according to Amasing and it went well) apologize as you want him to ... you would just roll your eyes ....You're not getting it, are you? Bowen *didn't* apologize. Can't you see that? I think you can. You know it, I know it... and what's more important, the majority of the people reading this know it. Make excuses for Bowen all you want if that makes you feel better, but you are in the minority.
If you didn't think an apology from Bill to Ray would help you heel from this event why did you say so in the first place?I'm *still* looking for a HEARTFELT apology... an acknowledgement that he did something that was very, very wrong.
I have seen him take all sorts of nasty Emails and verbal assualts over the past year... I still remember all the assualts he took on the Dateline show delay because of what the producers told him.*insert rolling eye thingy here*
Tell me, since you know... How many of the posters of this forum--ex-JWs, I'm talking about--were the authors of those "nasty Emails" that Bowen got over the past year? I dare say: NOT ONE. Every one of those emails came from those that might be called his "enemies." And that is what Bowen demonstrated himself as being toward Ray Franz. Period.
It's ridiculous that you would call that blather an "apology." If THAT was simply a misunderstanding, then all the gb has to do is write a wt article and say, "hey folks, it was all a misunderstanding!! What we said about __insert WTBS falsehood__ was all a misunderstanding!!" Would that work for you, hawk? Apparently.
So if it helps your heeling, nail his ass to the wall on this whether he apologizes or not.Will do... until Simon locks the thread.
