by Amazing 148 Replies latest jw friends
After all is said and done ------- we're all human and we've all spoken/written things we wish in retrospect that we hadn't written. Hey! I'm a classic example of that....lol - even if I quickly edit - it's condemned by *some*.
Jim, thanks for bringing some insight & peace about this.
Bill, thanks for all the wonderous hard work you've accomplished.
Ray, thanks for making it easier for millions of xjw's.
"Peace and Good Will Among Men."
waiting,
Your post hits home. Well said - as usual too.
hawk
Imagine if we all put this amount of time and effort into the cause.
Damn! No-one could stop us then.......if only.....
Why don't we let Bill and Ray hash it out for crying out load. It was a misunderstanding or something, who knows who cares.....All this time and energy wasted.
I bet a small JW child is being hurt right now while we all bicker and fight........What a shame.
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OK, I'm upset and disappointed. The two men I look to as HEROS in what I see as our movement here are at odds with one another. That doesn't settle well with me and I'M SURE THE SOCIETY is LOVING IT! Amazing, Bill, and Ray, what's the possibility that ya'll can talk this IMPORTANT issue out in private and give us a unified front? We don't have to be, or want to be, a monolith, but on a core issue it'd be nice to see some agreement in those acknowledged to be giants in this thing of ours.
AMAZING< BILL < RAY please, for the love of children and our God, talk this out.
Mike (AKA YERU)
Hi RevMalk: You made some good succinct comments that I want to address:
Imagine if we all put this amount of time and effort into the cause. Damn! No-one could stop us then.......if only.....
By openly debating some serious issues, we ARE putting the time and energy into the cause.
Why don't we let Bill and Ray hash it out for crying out load. It was a misunderstanding or something, who knows who cares.....All this time and energy wasted.
That was taking place, until Bill Bowen decided to make it public and post comments about Ray Franzs views ... comments which Ray stated are not fair or accurate. Once made public it deserved discussion and debate and to be fair a public response from Ray Franz.
I bet a small JW child is being hurt right now while we all bicker and fight........What a shame.
Drawing upon our sympathies for such victims is understandable. Whether we debate this issue or not will have positive or negative impact on whether a child is molested ... any more than saving food last night in the USA will suddenly feed starving children in Africa today. The need for fair and open debate should not be minimized, but should be taken for what it is and dealt with as adults ...
Bill like anyone else is human and maybe his "ego" might get the best of him some days. Oddly he has not done his ego thingy around me but no doubt he has had his days just like I have had mine
I think that the time has come for us to leave BB be. He does need to reflect, and he can't do that whilst we continue to make him pay for his shortcomings.
I will say this, however, I have, in the past, acted just as arrogantly as Bill Bowen has done here, when I was leading a very successful sales team. I fell from a very great height, but eventually emerged a somewhat emotionally battered, but much wiser person. I recognised the ego syndrome and saw it in Bill, which is the reason why I did not join him in London, as I knew that we would have an unpleasant confrontation.
Ego can be a very heady drug indeed, and when we first experience it we can feel totally unbeatable. If Bill can handle this "bringing down to earth", he could well be just what we need to continue to expose the paedophile problem in the WT Society.
Isn't there a scripture about discipline being grievous for a time?
Englishman.
The fact of the matter is Bill apologized to H_S a few days ago. Got it. He did it and said so. H_S publically said so in a post.
So Bill does do the friggen "extraordinary" - understand??? And I think he did it a "short" time ago. -- Hawk
Yeah, Hawk, I "got it."
However, it's apparent that *you* missed MY point. I wasn't talking about HS... I was talking about the topic of this thread: Ray Franz. My admonition to Bill has to do w/ the attack he made here -- PUBLICLY -- on Ray Franz. [I guess Bill is attacking so many of late that there is rising confusion on which attack is being spoken of.]
Did you not see where Bill alleged that Ray not only authored but supported the Watchtower's secretive abuse policy? And where he called into question Ray's ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right? Has Mr. Bowen apologized for shooting his mouth off in THAT event? If so, I missed it. Got it?
Bill like anyone else is human and maybe his "ego" might get the best of him some days. Of course you guys are going to tell me that you don't ever step in it or been out of line.
"Bill is human" = red herring.
Of course we all make mistakes but that is not the point here. Even if it were, when we make mistakes the more mature of us do what we can to make amends. Part of that is apologizing.
In the past, exJWs have lambasted the Society, and rightfully so, for never standing up and acknowledging their mistakes (e.g. "1975"). Must we follow their miserable example? I don't think so.
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After all is said and done ------- we're all human and we've all spoken/written things we wish in retrospect that we hadn't written. Hey! I'm a classic example of that....lol - even if I quickly edit - it's condemned by *some*. -- Waiting
Yes we are all human, but that's sort of a red herring. What Bill said about Ray is either true and verifiable or it's not. If true, it should be allowed to stand. If not, it should be retracted and the one making the false allegation... that would be Bill... owes Ray a heartfelt apology. Clear and simple.
Good I'm glad you got it and I really enjoyed your large font.
And yes I did see everything too .... neat eh!
Your point was suggesting that Bill would likely not apologize because it would be "extraordinary" and "he would have to show humility, a trait in short supply these days". If you were trying to tell me different why in the hell would you use those words? You also believed he should apologize to Ray for his action - we both agree he should apologize based on Jim's statement.
That was your point.
My point is he has apologized in the recent past for doing a stupid thing to another person and I know he has apologized to other people too. And it is not as "extraordinary" as you made it out to be. No doubt he will do the same here based on his previous track record.
My other points related to someone using the "ego" to describe Bill.
Anyway I've had enough.
hawk
I'm with you Hawk. I'm sure it will all work out in time. Everybody chill!
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Amazing Well, you are probably correct in all of that. It's just that I'm so tired of it all. I'm with Mulan, I'm going to split for a while. My kids don't even bicker this much, it's all giving me a headache. Good Luck to All - Till I return (which will probably be tomorrow when I get real bored, haha)
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