Repressed Memories.

by Englishman 60 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Lady Lee

  I'm 100% on board with larc on this. The therapist that E-man saw was unethical in trying to "lead: the patient to belive something that the therapist wanted him to believe. I cringe at stories like this. A person who was more unstable might buy into it. Glad you didn't E-man even though you stuck around for a few week to "investigate" with this person. Sometimes a nose is just a nose.

  I have one recovered "repressed memory" and I believe I have a few others that I have not recovered yet - there are gaps in my memory that so not make sense. I know and have confirmed there is missing information.

  However, I would never ever go to a therapist - even if they are good - to recover those memories. If they need to come out they will when I am ready for it. Pushing them out is not healthy emotionally or wise in my opinion.

  In working with other people I would never trust a memory that some one said they got through hypnosis or a therapist led inquiry. I have always placed more validity in the meories people bring to me - they usually have plenty to work with without digging for more.

  In these cases I think the adage - If it ain't broke - don't fix it - rings very true.

  (((((Mulan))) your memory I would definitely believe. it has the ring of truth. It was recovered on your own without assistance. Your emotional reaction to the incidents validates that "something" happened to you (although it doesn't validate exactly what happened the memory details do that)

  And I think that when people have serious reactions to situations they might need investigation but leading the patient is always wrong.

  And for you nail-biters - joining the JWs and all the pressures that imposes would most definitely be enough for a kid or anyone else to develop such a behavior
• 

  Lady Lee

  larc your comments about therapists who stop reading and researching after they graduate is sooo true. I would get so angry at classmates who would say they would be thrilled when they graduated to never read a book again about therapy and theories.

  For me that is like saying I would be willing to go to a doctor who graduated 30 years ago and hasn't opened a book since!!!!

  Especially in the field of abuse and memory the information has exploded. In 1985 when I started reading sexual abuse information there was a handful of books about sexual abuse. And I read them all in one week. I now have over 600 of them in my persoanl library. I can't keep up anymore with it all but I try to stay on top of the most recent even if I can't buy it.

  Any therapist who doesn't have many of the more important books on abuse in their libray would be one to stay away from. I wouldn't expect everyone to have what I have but would expect the more important recent ones be read
• 

  JanH

  Seven,

  Some have experienced situations that in their own minds were so horrific the mind puts on a form of defense and seems to put some kind of a mental pad lock on those memories to enable those who have experienced those things to deal with them by blocking them out.

  That is the basic claim of many "repressed memory" therapists, yes. In general, it is not true. Extensive research on people who we know experienced some of the worst trauma imaginable, in particular holocaust survivors, shows that the worse the trauma, the clearer the memory. This is also true about children who were in kz camps. It is also true about thousands of people who lived through horrible suffering, like war veterans. Typically, they have recurring nightmares decades later. I am sure many would wish they could forget. So, the theory that severe trauma makes the human mind repress horrible memories as a form of self defence is not supported by fact. If it was true, you should expect that a significant number of people who we know had childhood trauma later repressed it. Research has failed to support the claim.

  That said, it is surely the case that loss of memory happens all the time, especially of early childhood experiences. Accidents, mental disorders, etc can cause loss of memory. Naturally, abuse can cause such things to happen in individual cases. Sometimes lost memory can resurface by sensory input. I am sure we have all experienced a memory we'd forgotten for a long time resurfacing because of e.g. a sound or a smell.

  Again, the basic claim of suppressed memory therapists is that there is a mechanism of suppression after severe abuse, and that their specific methods (hypnosis, etc) helps to recall memory. Cognitive research has pretty much established that there is no such suppression mechanism in the human mind, and that the methods employed are more likely to create false memories than recalling lost ones.

  And, since you mentioned it: I really don't think that a tape recorder is a very useful analogy for the human brain. Memories are constantly changed and there is really no reliable method to get back to the "original." Sometimes memories are irrevocably lost, and then they cannot be recalled, as there is nowhere to recall them from.

  - Jan

  ---

  Blogging at Secular Blasphemy
• 

  larc

  Seven, JanH's summary is an accurate depiction of what we know at this point in time. I would like to had another example to the ones that JanH provided. In Loftus's original, classic research review on memory published in the American Psychologist she pointed out this fact. Children who see someone murdered do not repress the memory, so why should they repress other traumas? It is not likely that they do, in most cases.
• 

  wednesday

  From my own personal experience, i would have probably remembered my abuse fully a lot quicker, but fear of my father stopped it. When my father was dying, and i felt safe, i was able to talk about it. I was already in therapy and i took it to my doc and told him. he listened , and basicqlly helped me feel safe enough to tell him what had happened. For years, this memory was sort of floating aorund in my mind, but i would not let myself remember it out of fear. Years after my father died, i still feared he might come back and hurt me for telling., even though i logically knew he could not do that.

  My doc never proded for other memories. he let me tell him. I am very grateful for this kind man, his skill and ability to help me feel safe enough to say things out loud.

  BTW, i remember the society article on repressed memories. I felt then it was an attempt to protect men, not to ruin someones life. Children and women have been so degraded. Only a man's word is worth anything.

  I do not agree that a person would always remember trauma. I forced myself not to remember out of fear. the memory was there but i would not allow mydelf to access it due to fear of saying it outloud.
• 

  Mimilly

  I'm gonna throw out a bone here.....

  What if dissociation is involved? Personally, I can believe what is being said about repressed memories here. But when talking about repressed memories, we have to include dissociation, in the mild-extreme forms.

  Repressed memories in one who is dissociative is quite possible, and truthful. Therefor, a repressed memory coming from such a person (and I am not discussing fakers here) is factual. This also draws in 'triggers' - the key from this time that opens that particular door in the past.

  Your thoughts?

  Mimilly
• 

  seven006

  Jan, Larc,

  My comments were based on information dealing with memory and hypnosis in the field of criminology. I am currently working on a project right now and do not have the time to dig up the information I had last read on the subject. My information might be a bit out dated in comparison to the both of yours so until I can go back and find it or read more updated material it I am not going to try and state any more of my thoughts until I can.

  If either one of you can give me your source of information I would love to read it. I don't keep up on this type of reading like I use to. I know you two do so I am going to shut the hell up before I end up looking stupid. I know the consensus of this argument changes often and from my last chance to read topics on this subject I'm sure there has been even more changes. Most of it is based on perspective and case studies based on a specific agenda. In the field of criminology this subject has been under extreme scrutiny since hypnosis had become a part of an excepted legal process in the late 70's. I agree that this can cause as much harm as it does good but it is still a useful tool and with all things in the field of psychotherapy more is learned every day.

  Dave
• 

  larc

  Seven, I too am going on memory, which we all know is infallable. The last I looked at the material was three years ago, though I did teach it for 15 years previous to that. Now, I do remember one study on hypnosis and memory for crime details. The study showed that hypnotized person's memories are no better than nonhypnotized persons. However, the hypnotized person's were more confident in their memory. This posed a problem in court. Their confident but inaccurate testimony could sway the jury. For this reason, hypnotized recall is not admissable in court, at least in some states. Perhaps, there are other uses of hypnosis as a tool in criminology short of court room use. I will go to the local college in a day or two and see what else I can find.
• 

  seven006

  Larc,

  As I remember testimony based on hypnotic recall is not admissible and that was not my point. It is more as a legal way to obtain information in an investigative manner for the investigating authorities. I have used hypnosis myself to do this and it does give you an alternative direction in which to go. It does not mean the information is 100% accurate but it can lead to a better route to go when one is unsure. Many times the information is good enough to peace things together better and add to other sources of information. As I said, it can be useful as well as harmful. I still see it as a useful tool.

  I will look forward to hearing what you come up with. I haven't played with this stuff or a while but I love learning more about the latest advancements. Messing with peoples minds is fun for me and hypnosis is a fascinating subject.

  Dave
• 

  waiting

  I would think it important to keep issues distinct....ie: hypnosis, repressed memory, regular memory, trauma (mild, violent, watching it or receiving it, etc.), children, adults, agendas.

  As for hypnosis - I was a jw until after my parents had both died. That's when I started having memories, then I searched out a therapist, and was never hypnotized (jw's don't do that, remember?)

  However, it has been shown through different studies that memory can be influenced without hynosis. The way things are worded, etc. And memories can come back to a person at the most peculiar times, in the most peculiar ways. I think a lot depends on the individual.

  waiting