Creation: The big and the small of it

by Zechariah 85 Replies latest jw friends

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  pomegranate

  Your right pom....your God you believe in did create bad....thats why I said piss on him. You can give all the explanations you want.....all you want......and never will I nor anyone else understand how Apowerful God would WANT TO DO THAT.

  One that has chosen NOT to understand will never understand. I believe it's all quite simple...and it all has to do with Law and Justice.

  We are created in his image my friggin ass. There isn't a person on this planet who if they had the power......would create bad and allow harm to it's creation unless they were a heartless piece of shit.

  So, my understanding causes you to refute with obscenities? Are you really that enraged over some text on your monitor? Let me ask you, is my understanding physically harming you in any way? Is it physically harming anyone? Am I forcing it on you? If you do not agree with what I say, so be it. What makes you cuss and swear and blaspheme? Me? Wow. I underestimate myself.

  "Bad" is relative. God may have created things that seem physically "bad" but he did not create the darkness of evil or the spirit behind evil or the actions of evil. If the bad is temporary (which it is), then I have no problem enduring it, and temporary it is. I look at it this way, it's better to be born "bad", than be good and corrupted with bad. Why? That way Satan can't corrupt that which is born corrupt already. Satan spreading corruption ENDS with the creation of a procreating species with inherited traits.

  It's just like medicine. First treat the disease to keep it from spreading, then destroy the disease and become healed. I believe we are in the last stages of "treatment." I look at God's approach as an antibiotic. As you know, antobiotics kill the good with the bad, with the end result being a good body that becomes healed. So it is with God, only the good that gets in the cross fire of treatment, shall be brought back to life to be grafted back into the body. Healed. Disease destroyed. Onto the real life.

  If you were God looking down on the starving children of the world......would you just frickin sit there and watch! You can have this guy.....I still say piss on him.

  The urine you lay on God will probably be the urine you drown in...

  By saying this I do not speak against a loving God who may be out there....I really don't. Only the God you describe.

  Unfortunately, I believe you are angry and clueless.

  I like you Pom....I just hate your ideas.

  I am my ideas.
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  gumby

  Pom, Yes I am angry. Yes I am clueless. So are you clueless....unless you have it all figured out.

  Everyone is clueless. All the philosophers, bible scholars, scientist, all of them are still baffled over many things they only guess at. Not that some things have not been proved.....but many have not.

  So, my understanding causes you to refute with obscenities? Are you really that enraged over some text on your monitor? Let me ask you, is my understanding physically harming you in any way? Is it physically harming anyone? Am I forcing it on you? If you do not agree with what I say, so be it. What makes you cuss and swear and blaspheme? Me? Wow. I underestimate myself.

  Pom...I am an asshole many times I know. I shouldn't fly off the handle but I do. Why?

  I was raised a dub and believed it with my whole heart. I found out it was crap. Then I became a Christian....I realized there's a good chance I was dupped AGAIN. I came to realize the Bible has many problems and my heart was let down AGAIN.

  I guess I am mad at the fact that I believe in a creator but cannot understand in a logical way how he operates and allows all the heartache he has allowed. When people such as yourself try to explain it all and it still doesn't make sence or paints a worse picture of God than you already had.....it REALLY gets me pissed.

  I don't get upset on other issues....I'm an easy goin guy believe it or not. But a subject that deals with the things that are the most important to me....why I am here....where I am going....what God's purpose for me is....then every thing that is said concerning that is taken extremely serious and can change how I feel.

  I have told myself to chill out on this board but I fail miserably. Like I said...it's the ideas of people that get to me....not the individuals for the most part.
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  Buster

  Wow, Pomegranate, where do you get the time and emotional energy? Stunning.

  But I would like to throw out one of the opinions that had Vinny P. running to the elders, all crying, because he thought I was becoming apostate. This very topic got me in front of Jim P., and I think Erwin A. and one other after a Thursday meeting.

  This isn't all that original, but I don't see creationsim and evolution as mutually exclusive. I don't imagine that you are one of the guys that denies the fossil record - that these animals and plants really existed. You see it strikes me as absurdly tedious for a God to create a set of flora and fauna, then decide that some of them had served their purpose, and clear them out, and then make another set with some varying set of characteristics and see how they work out for a while.

  Of course anything is possible - but I find it infinitely more elegant that a formative intelligence would have been able to get the ingredients together, muons, gluons, quarks, meso quarks (those may not even be elemental particles). That once assembled, maybe in some ultra-massive sigularity (the start of the big bang), the intelligence just let it go and the rest is history.

  What one needs to do is stop seeing the bible as a 'scientific source' (jjrizo) and see the scriptures as written for a set of people of a specific time. Especially the Old Testament stuff. One needs to stop seeing the description of forming clay as literal, and see it as a long process that resulted in mankind. We need to stop inferring references of a 'creation day' as some set period of time.

  Long ago, organized religion made some interpretations of the bible and we are still living with those inferences to this day - probably always will.

  Of course Elder Jim P. (can't believe he had a degree) came back with some bunk about how he could see that a horse could easily enough evolve into a smaller horse - But that there was no way that a horse could become a pig. (Or somesuch very much like that). That was one of several times before the inquisition.

  Looking forward to hearing from you,
  - Buster
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  Beast

  I didn't know there was more than one creation. I subscribe to the one that God did, which is the one I believe.

  
  
  Of course.But,there's more than one school of thought as to how that creation came into being.From the literal,to the diestic approach.There are many different types of creationists,who believe different versions of the creation event.
  
  From reading a few of your past posts,you believe in the bible's version of creation,but you seem to have taken a more liberal stance.Am I correct in assuming you don't believe that the earth was created in literal days?What would your estimate be on the age of this planet?
  
  I was also wondering if you had incorporated ideas or concepts from the creation beliefs of other non christian religions.After all,there are many such varied concepts out there.
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  pomegranate

  I don't imagine that you are one of the guys that denies the fossil record - that these animals and plants really existed. You see it strikes me as absurdly tedious for a God to create a set of flora and fauna, then decide that some of them had served their purpose, and clear them out, and then make another set with some varying set of characteristics and see how they work out for a while.

  I am one of the guys that knows the fossil record is completely absent of transitional life forms. Which is what evolution professes to be true. If evolution is a fact, the fossil evidence of a transitory coming into existance would not only be in the fossil record, but the evidence would be enormous, simply overwhelming, undeniable and irrefutable. Evolutionists are tied to maybe a few examples that can easily be refuted, which even evolutionists admit..

  The earth is a cyclic biological entity. It's life forms live on the nitrogen cycle which in it's simplest terms, means things die and give their nutrient value to a following life form as food or fertilizer. In order for that to happen (the cycle), things had to be made living then eliminated enmass in order to bring the nitrogen cycle up to speed and running all by itself. Loam is dead stuff and expelled discharge (vegetative and animal) that turns into FERTILE GROUND. Without God going through elementary CYCLES of passes of unintelligent life coming to be (ie Cambrian period) then eliminated, the cycle of nittrogen would NEVER be a fact. I beleive the cycle of nitrogen was built in waves. Layers of life that were reduced by God into layers of death, supplying a source of life for the following wave of created life.

  From the smallest ie trilobites in the beginning all the way to the huge dinosaurs towards the end, along with the constant vegetative cycles of living then dying, each life form that came and went became a part of the nitrogen cycle engine that would eventually become a free running entity. Without these waves of death enmass, there would be no nitrogen cycle. I believe even the dinosuars were used as a final burst of organic bang to the biological engine we are familiar with as the cyclic earth.

  That's what I believe.

  Edited by - pomegranate on 25 October 2002 8:51:39
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  pomegranate

  From reading a few of your past posts,you believe in the bible's version of creation,but you seem to have taken a more liberal stance.Am I correct in assuming you don't believe that the earth was created in literal days?What would your estimate be on the age of this planet?

  It is quite IMPOSSIBLE for the earth to have been created in literal days. I am presuming you mean 24 hour time periods when you say "literal days." Estimating the age of the earth is of no value to me...it is indeed old enough to be a free running entity that surely took alot of time to build, of which layers surely speak of something being built. Just like floors on a sky scraper, built layer by layer, floor by floor.
  

  I was also wondering if you had incorporated ideas or concepts from the creation beliefs of other non christian religions.After all,there are many such varied concepts out there.

  I know of no one that looks at the earth and it's biological structure it exihbits the way I do. I'm in my own private Idaho so to speak.
• 

  Realist

  pom,

  once again you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge.

  >>>I am one of the guys that knows the fossil record is completely absent of transitional life forms.<<<

  a) this statement is wrong. there are transitional forms (several hundered actually).

  b) transitional forms are rather rare because these forms exist only for relatively short periods of time...only during changes in environment conditions on the planet or if a new ecological niche gets available. lifeforms that are as well as possible adapted to the environment don't change.

  >>>The earth is a cyclic biological entity.....<<<

  where in hell did you get that nonsense from? have you looked at the actual nitrogen cycle? do you know what cyanobacteria (nitrogen fixing bacteria) are? have you heard of photosynthesis as the mechanism by which most biomass is produced?

  by the way...do you have any hard evidence that you base the global flood story on? since you didn'T post any facts yet i have the impression the answer to that question is NO.

  one last thing...what science books do you read and who recommended them to you???
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  pomegranate

  List the hundreds of transitions and the pictures and data behind them. Surely, they must be all over the net.

  If you want good data on the flood, go check out hooberus on the carbon dating thread. He knows more than me in that regard. As I have siad before, geology ain't my bag.
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  StinkyPantz

  Pom-

  This is in response to your last post, enjoy:
• 

  rem

  Pomegranate,

  Here's a whole crap load of transitional fossils for ya:

  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html

  rem