Kangaroos and the Flood

by Zechariah 66 Replies latest jw friends

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  Zechariah

  Joseph,

  I see now where you are coming from and I do not disagree that a local flood could satisfy the scriptures. The earth as you suggested being the populated parts of the earth. You are correct also that the influence of the fallen angels only took place within probably the last several hundred years before the flood.

  I apologize for being dogmatic about this but I mistook your statements initally to be a attempt to discredit the Bible along with unbelievers. But I know you better and should have realized that what you were saying indeed upholds the scriptures.

  This makes it totally unnecessary therefore for them to have transported kangeroos to Australia.

  I am well pleased to understand it that way.

  Thanks for sticking with me while I understood.

  I wasted a lot of time arguing a moot point that was better not argued. As my only purpose is to let God Be found true this way of looking at it does just that. Oh well. It happens some time.

  It just dawned on me the significance of what you said about yhe animals on the face of the earth did not have to apply to areas ofthe earth not populated by man. Certainly it would not.

  Sorry... Unbelievers... This is a no loss situation for me. I ws wrong but I still am right.

  All things make sense if you look at it Joe's way.

  Thanks Joe
• 

  Navigator

  TR

  That's SUmerians, if you please! And I wonder who they borrowed it from.
• 

  JosephMalik

  Zechariah,

  Good. This argument about animals and science and salt water was doing more damage than good. When Alan F argued the subject he used science and such for proof. And the discussions were extremely lengthy and argumentative as they were getting to be here. I stayed out of all that because my interest was in scripture and I knew that the answers were really simple and short. And since this was more a JW problem and they were supposed to be so smart I just let them argue to the point of exhaustion. We deserve better here and I just wanted to help. Thanks.

  Joseph
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  Analysis

  Zechariah:

  OK so now you realize that it was only a Regional Flood. As I stated I believe the Bible account of the Flood was based on some event in the Pre-History of man.

  You said in reply to my questions:

  "You had so little faith that you are willing to abandon belief just because tough questions are raised. Trust in God on these occasion

  (s) will lead you to satisfactory answers."

  It seems that you are the one that abandoned a belief with just some tough questions; In only a matter of just a few days. Here you have spent a great deal of effort to support your Biblical beliefs, even reading into scriptures things that were not there, but also adding your own human speculations. That is what most religious people have been doing for the last two thousands years.

  So how is the Ice Age explained by a regional Flood? Some might say the melting of the Ice is what caused the flood.

  What about the question of rain in Genesis the second chapter?

  And how do you account for the people who lived in other parts of the world prior to the flood?

  You stated:

  "I am not a believer that everything the Bible says is to be taken literally."

  Who decides what is literal and what is not? Or is it up to each individual person to make those determinations themselves and in the end it is between them and God. Is God going to condemn me if I were to make a mistake in that determination? Am I condemned if I was raised in a part of the World that did not have access to the Bible?
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  Trauma_Hound

  Genesis 6:17
  I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.

  Ah the bible lied, I can prove it, whales and dolphins are mamals, and thusly air breathers, yet they would not have died because of a flood.
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  JosephMalik

  Trauma_Hound,

  This has already been covered. The verse is dealing with a specific inhabited earth identified earlier not the entire planet. The verse you use therefore does not stand alone. It stands in context with other introductory verses which restrict the way it can be applied.

  Joseph
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  JosephMalik

  It seems that you are the one that abandoned a belief with just some tough questions; In only a matter of just a few days.

  Analysis ,

  This happened to me and not very long ago on this forum I picked up a change in some things I was teaching. For this I am happy not sad and make corrections as need be. If not for this I would never grow. This is why such discussions are helpful. The apostles like Peter and John had to do the same thing over Law, a major change in view so we are in good company. Are you critical of them as well?

  Joseph
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  Zechariah

  Analysis,

  Your object is to disprove the Bible which is unacceptable to me dspite what the facts say. I am a man of faith. I have no obligation to be intellectually honest. I am not dominated by the ego (mind/intellect). I am dominated by the spirit of God that lives inside me and teaches me. Any exterior facts that conflicts with what the spirit tells me are dismissed as facts. I trust the wisdom of Godfar more than that of men.

  I am sorry that you no longer or never had that kind of faith. I only accepted Josephs evidence because his intent was to give support to the Bible not as your obvious intent to discredit it. Can you not see the difference?

  My trust and faith in God and the Bible always pays off. I always gives to God and the Bible the benefit of the doubt. Whenever something comes up that might question the Bibles trustworthiness I pray and meditate on it for however long it takes for an answer. It always comes.

  Believe me I was perfectly satisfied with my imagined scenario about how the Kangeroos got to Australia. No body could prove it didnt happen that way. My belief was still in tact. God has however rewarded my faith with greater understanding and enlightenment through the instrument of Joseph. I am thankful very much to Joseph but believe he was being a agent of God.

  What you are trying to do by encouraging me to doubt the Bible is not motivated by the spirit of God. Your willingness and search for things that question God and the Bible makes you jump to accept faulty, untrue, and unreliable evidence presented by those who oppose God.

  Your beleifs about mutations being the cause of diversity among creation is absurd. You are willing to accept its truth and reject God as creator without so much as a attempt to validate your facts.

  Mutations are deformities. Deformities are never good. Six fingers or three arms no matter how perfectly formed they are would never be accepted as good. It would never make the creation more viable for life. As man we would never accept complacently mutations of any kind thinking we are evolving into something else. We would do all we could to correct the plus or minus mutations.

  In the animal kingdom they would no doubt kill a freak of nature instinctively.

  Reproductive diversity is a God given feature that has nothing to do with mutations. Every species of man or beast or plants for that matter has a wide range of genes that enter into a random selection at time of conception. You chose to give credit for this marvelous feature of reproduction to the Gods of evolution. It is a totally false and impotent creator . It in Gods eyes is idolatry certainly.

  Each of the parents in the reproductive process has millions maybe billions of possibilities to choose from in the genes. If the parents are alike then the variations are limited. When unlike the variation possibilities increase a millionfold. Dog breeding as you contend has nothing to do with mutations. If you can prove that please do. If you breed two poodles you'll get two poodles.

  If you breed a poodle and a cocker spaniel you get a cocker-poo. The possibilities are almost endless within kind (classifications) and by Godly design are impossible outside of kind (classification). The joy man has had in introducing different breeds of animals together as well as different breeds of humans together in interracial relationships is without bounds. To give that credit to the God of evolution has to be a sin. It certainly is not faith in God.

  Zechariah
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  rem

  Your object is to disprove the Bible which is unacceptable to me dspite what the facts say. I am a man of faith. I have no obligation to be intellectually honest.

  LOL. That's for sure.

  rem
• 

  breeze

  Very Interesting???

  I am reading this post and this is very interesting banter, discussion I guess you could say?

  Very good points, many that I have never heard, Pro & Con about the flood story.

  It just seems to me that if this flood account along with many others in the Bible were to be taken with such stanch belief that a God that is c apable of creation would make all of this more clear.

  If it were so important that we drink from a wine glass once a year to be recognized as a part of the 144,000 heavenly class and put so much stock into these sacred writings that it would be very simple to just lay it all out in simple form. Instead all I have heard all of my life are different views and or opinoins of the same damn information?

  I can't believe that this same creation God has not been more active in settling the world's issues and helping get all these religions get straight. After all the world could come together, as opposed to fighting each other over some tiny piece of miserable worthless land?

  I think if God wanted mankind to be wrapped up in religion the way man sees it, he would set it all up from the beginning so that man would get it right? The whole damn mess is just a power play of somekind that has spirialed out of control to the point that Jews & Moslems are fighting over the same hill in Israel.

  Just think about it, floods stories about language being set up at the babel tower, creatures with many heads and Daniel with the Lion and and so on? What purpose does it serve for it to be so confusing?

  Any person with an eighth grade education could from the first day say lets build a church right here and this is the way I want you to worship me?

  But noooo, the trinty has to be involved and the hell issue is not explained and the 144,000 thing is ridiculous, and then being a part of this system of things is just not acceptable. I eat, sleep, work, love and all of those things in this system, but I can't even stand during the national anthem?

  This religion thing is just out of control......if you did take religion out of the earthly equation it would be a simply better place to live. I know some DUB is going to say and there you have it the end is nigh....go ahead..

  Screw you first so, now go ahead and say it......you religious freak moron....

  BREEZE

  Edited by - breeze on 13 November 2002 20:42:22