not my enemy (page 5)

teejay

I don't know, y'all...

There's a cut in my 'Saturday Afternoon' mp3 playlist. It's from the O'Jays 1991 album Emotionally Yours - That's How Love Is...

You wait and call them,
Don't know how they feel..
You're wondering if it's all for real

You love them. You HATE them..
It all happens so fast.
Now you don't think your love will last.

That's love.
That's how it is.

Yeah, the song loses most of its punch without the talented voices and the music (Sorry!) but the words remind me of my time in The Truth. They also remind me of the first time I was in love.

Neither experience was always smooth, not always free and easy. But still those times were very meaningful -- experiences that I know you'll never forget... or ever really get over.

I can't speak for anyone else here. All I can say is that while my thirty or so years as a Witness deprived me of some things I will always miss, my time as a Dub wasn't a total waste, either.

For one, I had friends...

Yeah, I know now that the friendships back then had strings attached, that my friendships with "them" hinged on certain expectations. But, ya know, some of the "friendships" I've made since then are just the same, really. The friends I had then were conditional. So is nearly every one of the friendships I have now. They're just dependent on things other than religion.

For example, not a single one of the friends I have now really knows me. Come on. How could they? There aren't enough minutes in a year to explain JW life to someone who's never been one, so who'd I be kidding to even try? So I don't. With that being said, how can I really call them friends? I don't. Not really.

Another thing...

I liked 'knowing' that the problems of this life would someday eventually come to a complete end and that I would one day have a full and truly meaningful life. It gave me a psychological lift, knowing that the mistakes that befell me in this life weren't ever all my fault. Not only that... they would be erased in the very near future. Then, I could be everything I'd always thought I could be. It was a very nice thought to carry around all those years. Sorry I had to put it down. Real sorry.

Knowing that this life is probably all I will ever have is good to know, I guess, but it's sadly discomforting, too. Sometimes I get tired of being on my own and knowing that I'm on my own. I get tired of living with blunt truth all the time. I miss being deluded. I don't know about y'all, but being in a haze of delusion had its attractions.

Life is about delusions, after all. There is no ultimate "truth." Only perception -- what is truth to us, at the time. Point is: my JW experience wasn't ALL bad and I'd be lying if I said it was.

Blaming my Mamma or Daddy or the Watchtower Society for the fix I'm in and somehow leaving ME out of the equation... I dunno... doesn't make much sense. I'm a reasonably smart feller (despite what some of y'all think) so it only stands to reason that part of what my life is now is partly my do-in'.

I mean... somewhere along the line teejay made some choices. He said yes or no. at some point, teejay must answer for what he said... the choices HE made. To pass off his bad decisions on to others -- any others -- wouldn't be fair.

Even so, even though I am partly guilty for having made some pretty poor choices, I've learned how to forgive me. Shouldn't I do the same for others that played a part in me being where I am now?

I have.

outoftheorg

I agree Teejay, we need to forgive ourselves and others.

However I find that those who continue to persecute me because I no longer believe as they do, by shunning me and those that promote this conduct are not in a position to be forgiven.

I can forgive those who ask for forgivness or even those who do not ask for forgivness but do not persecute me any longer.

If they persist in treating me like dirt or as they put it "like a poison snake" they are not worthy of forgivness, nor do they want my forgivness.

They tell others that I am spiritualy dead. Which is as close to murder as the legal authorities will allow. They refer to ot scriptures about stoning to death and say "I should be glad I don't live in that time, because I would be killed".

My opinion Outoftheorg.

herk

Outoftheorg,

While I can appreciate how you feel, I think we have to balance that view with what Jesus said: "Forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."

If we were still in the organization, we would probably treat so-called "apostates" in the same way that we're being treated. For several decades I shunned those who were thrown out or who abandoned JWs. I hope I'm forgiven. And I see no reason to believe that I'm not.

Hopefully, we will be in a position to welcome hundreds, perhaps thousands, with forgiveness and friendship as they make their escape from the kind of blind thinking we once engaged in ourselves.

Herk

outoftheorg

Hello Herk.

Read my post again. You will see that I am willing to forgive those that cease their persecution of those that do not share their belief.

If they come out of the org in the thousands it can be assumed they no longer persecute others.

Until they cease the persecution of others I find no reason to forgive those that are hurting me and my family.

Would you forgive some one who punched you in the face right after he did so time after time?

I doubt it.

Outoftheorg

herk

Outoftheorg,

While I understand what you're saying, I hope you haven't missed my point. It was while Jesus was being murdered that he asked God to forgive the murderers. Murder is more serious than being punched in the face, even if the punches are many. I'm not wanting to argue about this. I simply want to point out that Jesus' view seems to be that people who are blind as they persecute ought to be given some allowance for their blindness. As a JW I was blind and I persecuted in my blindness. I'm grateful it wasn't held against me. If it had been, most likely my eyes would never have been opened even as I engaged in persecuting. Paul was in a forgiven state even as he raced to Damascus for the purpose of throwing Christians in prison.

Jesus also said we should pray for those who persecute us and to love our enemies. To pray "for" them suggests it be because we want something good to come their way. And I don't see how we can actually "love" someone we haven't forgiven even though they're still our enemies.

Herk

larc

I do not view the WT as my enemy. There are several reasons for this. I have been out for a very long time. I fully understood the ramifications of my leaving, i.e., shunning, when I left. I made it a point to carve out a new life and make new friends and left the old ones behind me. Also, the kind of education I received helped me take a more objective veiw of the religion. In many ways the "Organization" has the same dynamics as other organizations. Most organizations will shunn you, if you speak against it, or violate its norms and values.

IslandWoman

In my heart I do not consider JWs an enemy. In fact I still have love for friends I left behind.

In my mind though I know for a certainty that the JW Pharisees in Brooklyn are teaching their people to view my children as suspect, and as enemies.

Therefore while inside I do not consider them enemies, in practice I must defend my children from the missles that I fear will inevitably come if I do not take the first step towards an offensive stance.

So, in defense of my children I must act as if the Watchtower is an enemy because as I said before if they could they would crucify my children and not think twice about it.

For now, yes, they are enemy.

IW

herk

I think Jesus authorized us to view JWs as our genuine enemies when he said, "A MAN'S ENEMIES WILL BE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD." (Matt. 10:36) But he also said, "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND PRAY FOR THOSE WHO PERSECUTE YOU." (Matt. 5:44)

Herk

DannyBear

Tj,

***Life is about delusions, after all. There is no ultimate "truth." Only perception -- what is truth to us, at the time. Point is: my JW experience wasn't ALL bad and I'd be lying if I said it was.***

I think you are right. I have said many times, that many of the lesson's learned while a jw are beneficial. Just the constant pressure to associate, door to door work, was a lesson in social skills, albeit based on religious overtones. It still forced us to deal with various personalities.

Reading and public speaking skills were developed while a jw. Other religions offering no such opportunity for the layman.

Yes I still remember the euphoric feeling's of the spiritual closeness with friends at the KH. A brotherhood. There are a few opportunities outside jwdom for this commaraderie, such as in the military or some of form of law enforcement, sports activity, but the particular jw 'life everlasting' club we enjoyed is very hard to replace.

Still it does not change the effects of wtbs dogma. It was and is an enemy to freedom.

If they (wtbs) stopped shunning, stopped the passing of judgement on other's, they would no longer be considered an enemy of mine. Until they do........I will view them as such.

Danny

Solace

Hello!!!

People are dying and being hurt here!

In my dictionary the definition of ENEMY is the following,

ENEMY - 1. Someone who wishes one harm. 2. A force or nation that harms another.

As long as the society continues to enforce the blood doctrine, the shunning policy, and harbor abusers and molesters, they WILL be an enemy to many. The last time I checked, these things killed and hurt.

No matter how much you sugar coat it, this is the sad truth.

not my enemy

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