by wednesday 37 Replies latest jw friends
yes know, Tex. It is jsut hard, having had it drilled in my head that jah has an org.
Stephanus, u seem most unpleasnt. My post is cleraly related to my issues with jw-and people talk about other religions here all the time. glad this was not my first post-
O.K, maybe this will help. Show me from the bible where Jah has an org.
Not all churches are abusive. Some are pretty open. Someone has previously mentioned the Unitarian Church. I find either the Unity School of Christianity or United Church of Religious Science a good place to be. In the more orthodox vein, the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) is very tolerant of differing views. You have to decide for yourself whether a church organization is necessary for your spiritual developement and that depends on your personality, your need to belong to a group, your background, etc.. None of the churches have an exclusive "handle" on the truth. If you find any group that holds that they are the only path to truth, you should run, not walk, to the nearest exit.
Hi wednsday,
You said:" before i leave jw completely, i need something more than they are abusive."
Well how about: the fact that they are liars.
How about: because it's a proven cult.
How about: because they have been responsible for people dying. ie:organ transplants, blood transfusions
How about: because people have suffered needlessly. please compare the Malawi-Mexico situation.
How about: You must give up your life to a book publishing company and try to place,sell or distribute those books to the general public.
How about: because they have put themselves in the place of Jesus by saying a person MUST become a JW or you WILL be destroyed.
I guess I could go on and on.
Of course it's your decision whether or not to remain being a JW.
Yes there is abuse in other religions.
Some people have a need to belong to one. Whether abusive or not.
What I had to ask myself before leaving the JWs was, If I stayed, could I continue to blindly follow thier orders.
Could I blindly believe the teachings of a group that constantly has to change what they teach?
Could I put more value in going to meetings and selling books than I can in really helping people.
Could I pretend to believe that the WTS is Gods spokesmen here on earth when they themselves with what they have written and done over the years,have proven that they were nothing more than men trying to control people.
And finnally I asked myself, If God came down and asked me why I didn't worship Him, I would say that I did.
And He would say No you do not. You worship a book publishing Company.
What does that have to do with worshipping me?
Jesus gave many examples of how to live and be a lover of God.
The WTS doesn't do any of it.
neyank
G'day Wednesday,
May I speak for our dear fellow poster Stephanus? Thanks. He's played a very active role here for quite some time and we've enjoyed the company of he and his family at our Apostafests/BBQs. A very thoughtful guy. BTW you may like to check out the "Who's Who on JWD" which was compiled by Steph.
So I'm sure he would not have sought to offend. Usually he's ever helpful combined with a true blue aussie larrikin streak.
Looking through his words in his post, don't you think he may have had a point? Just a teensy weensy one?
Cheers, Ozzie
No Ozzie,
I don't see his point. My post about jw abuse and abuse also in other religions, is just as relevant as any one else post. B/c my feelings jw's were abuseive, my hubby brings up there is abuse in all religions.So my thinking was why do we have a patent on crying abuse ? From time to time-like dede, i have thoughts about whether i'm doing the right thing in leaving.
And yes it would have offened me had it been my first few posts .
Steph---------I think it is unfair to say that abuse in other religions doesn't matter, considering the way in which it was brought up by Wed. She is asking what makes the JW's worse. She isn't all the way out yet and is asking our help. Those of us who have been out and have ventured elsewhere to other religions to give her a "report" as to what the difference is and what makes them better or worse than the JWs. She stated she is at a crossroad, and I think we should be supportive and help her with this. This IS a JW discussion board, but what about all the threads (fluff) that have nothing to do with the JWs. Wed was raised a JW and hasn't broke free yet, and needs some input, I find this to be very much a JW topic, since it is COMING from a JW that is on the fence and wants to know the difference between the JW and other religions. I found your comment a bit harsh.
Wed my dear. First I want to say I don't think the JW have a patent on crying abuse at all. I think since you are a JW and raised one, when your religion is attacked then it hits really close to home and you feel like everyone is saying the JW's are the worst. Alot of people here have been hurt (if not everyone in one form or another) by the JW's and so you will see alot of people saying it is worse. If you were to ask lets say---a catholic who was abused by one of the pastors, they would disagree with you, they would say the catholics are the worst. There is abuse everywhere, unfortunately. No one religion can escape that label in one form or another. What is abuse to one person isn't to another. This is a tough one for me to give advice on as far as where to go to church, since I have decided not to go, but I feel no need to do so. The fact that you do, isn't a bad thing and I can understand why you have that need, but all you can do is try and maybe find a non-denominational church and go from there. The fact that your hubby doesn't feel the same will make this hard. Why don't you try looking on the internet for a place you feel comfortable. I am sure there are sites in our area that are put up by local churches. You could try that, but that is the only advice I can give in that dept.
Love ya,
And you ask any ? you want to, some will agree and some won't that is the beauty of having so many people here.
Jesika
Edited by - jesika on 22 November 2002 12:55:32
Wednesday,
The JWs are no better and no worse than many other groups - you have to remember that they are human led, and humans ALWAYS do the same things to one another - power hungry people find a way to use a system to control other people. That has always been true, and doesn't seem to be changing. That is actually a truth that the JWs don't want you to discover, that they are the sme as everyone else. It exposes the man behind the curtain as it were. As to the line "Well where are you supposed to go?" that is a question that cannot be answered. Because there is no place to go if you are looking for the solutions to all of life's problems neatly wrapped in a package for you. It doesn't exist.
Given the chance, men in power will use religion (and gov't) to control and obtain money from the masses. It doesn't matter the label you put on it, christain, muslem, hindu, whatever, it's all the same result wrapped in a different package.
You have to determine YOU OWN thoughts on what you think is god/spirituality/etc. Until (if and when) Sky-Daddy decides to make his/her presence known in some manner, the is no single human on this planet that can claim to represent/define/channel god to others. Anything else is BS created by a human with an agenda.
Wednesday - I had this exact debate with my mother-in-law a couple weeks ago over dinner. She was raised the "strictest of strick" catholics (kneeling on rice or furnace vents for penence). She would have nightmares for years regarding "hell" and the pain if you weren't a good girl type thing.
The difference? Well, Catholics & most religions are not usually ex-communicated or thrown out for simple human sins - only in cases generally where they are truly "apostate" to every sense of the word. Most also do not teach that you "can't ride the fence". Very few discourage "peeking" at other religions in regards to questioning your own beliefs. Even if a "Catholic" is ex-communicated - they are only religiously discarded - they are not shunned by their entire family which imposes huge mental and emotional trauma on many.
So short end - all religions have problems. Few religions have the dire consequences imposed by a few "cultish" religious sects.
Wednesday,
What kind of doctor are you talking about? I had a therapist that said something similar, that abuse is not just found in one religion. He also did not seem too sympathetic to my situation. I found a different therapist(not just because of that), that is much more empathetic.
Yes, there is abuse in other religions. That does not make it any better. The difference is 1) the witnesses claim to be superior to all other religions, 2) the witnesses claim to be the only true christians, and 3)being a witness is very different than being a member of most churches, where there is much less commitment and control over every part of your life.
It sounds like part of what is holding you back from leaving is that you want to find some where else to go, to find a group/religion that will not be abusive and that will fulfill your spiritual needs. That is a worthwhile goal, but your search will not be quick or easy. Sad to say, you may never find such a group. In the meantime, though, why stay where you do not want to be?
And there are other reasons to leave besides the abuse you have suffered. Their failed prophecies are well documented. For myself, I have no desire to support a group that I believe has knowingly caused innocent children to suffer while protecting the abusers.
I know what its like to have a JW spouse too, btw. Your hubby sounds quite insensitive. Hopefully he will wake up.
